"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

[AbysmalDuck]

Because holding w, using an aoe and pressing 3 buttons is min/maxing.

Right, that is the problem with this thread, no one cares about the middle. It's either we want to maximize every minute of this run by having everyone pull equally or no one touch anything, but tank. It is all about intent and unfortunately, you'll never be able to determine someone's intent through a computer screen. Good luck trying. Until it somehow becomes possible, you are complaining because someone else didn't bend to your will and that is pretty shitty.

[Padudu]

you are complaining because someone else didn't bend to your will and that is pretty shitty.

lmfao "someone didn't bend to your will" you are literally clicking sprint and an aoe, if you can't do that by the time you hit late SB/ShB then idk go to tank school or something. it's not even min/max it's just straight up BASIC mechanics

i'm not saying this about new players/newer tank players btw, because obv those expectations are set differently and that's more whatever since they're just learning

[AbysmalDuck]

You do you boo, but I've learned I have a better time banging my head against the wall than to continue arguments on this forum, so have a great day!

[Padudu]

have a great day!

you too fam, appreciate you! :heart:

[Saraide]

Right, that is the problem with this thread, no one cares about the middle. It's either we want to maximize every minute of this run by having everyone pull equally or no one touch anything, but tank. It is all about intent and unfortunately, you'll never be able to determine someone's intent through a computer screen. Good luck trying. Until it somehow becomes possible, you are complaining because someone else didn't bend to your will and that is pretty shitty.

Saying "you pull you tank" is a pretty clear statement on the intent to let the dps die.

[Seiori]

For some reason Trust seems more appealing when reading through this thread, thankfully we are getting more of that in the future lol

[SapphireWeapon]

I encountered this for the first time last night, as a healer. It wasn't even a case of DPS pulling too many mobs -- we were in the Qitana Ravel. It was literally just the first lone enemy. But the tank refused to go in and pull aggro once the DPS had engaged and was snarky about it in the chat. I didn't want to let the DPS die just because the tank was being petty, so I tried to heal him, and the tank snapped at me for it.

I left the dungeon.

I thought this was just a one-off case of toxicity, but this thread has shown me that that this is more common than I could've known. That's really upsetting to learn. If you're a tank, your job is to hold aggro. Hold the damn aggro. If it turns out that the DPS did pull too much and the healer can't keep up or the tank isn't geared properly and it causes a wipe, ask the DPS to stay behind. It's not that serious. Wiping in a dungeon in this game is probably the least serious thing in the world. Y'all have your egos too wrapped up in this.

And before anyone goes "oh but it wastes time" -- really? Is there something else that you need to be doing in the ninety seconds it'll take you to get back to that spot? If you're that strapped for time, don't queue.

[Jijifli]

From most case I've seen, when a tank go with the "you pull you tank" they don't put their weapon away, they just stop doing aoe to take the extra mobs off the person that pulled. But you also seem to be missing my point. Both are as equally stupid.
Yes putting your weapon away and doing nothing because you decide you don't want to tank anymore is against the ToS. So is going out of your way to make a bigger pull without everyone being ok with it, that fall under the nuisance behavior.
And since you like quoting the ToS:
■Nuisance behavior
・Expressions that compel a playing style
It is prohibited to make statements such as:
"There's no way we can clear this with [suggestion]."
"Big pulls are normal here, so do it!"
"I don't care what you think, just follow my instructions."
"I'm not asking for your opinion."

So yeah, one player taking upon themself to pull more for someone else is just as much against ToS

You'd notice a difference too, however. Aiding the enemy states: "the following types of situations fall under the act of giving an advantage to the enemy" while your pointed at examples state: "It is prohibited to make statements such as:".

One has to do with action, the other has to do with communication. the dps did not make a statement, they just played. If it's truly a problem to the whole party that they did that, you vote kick them, you don't intentionally wipe everybody (there by punishing 2 other people who had nothing to do with it) and complain about how I somehow removed your aoe button from your hotbar.

Thancred cannot even wall2wall.

I have all trusts at 90. Thancred and G'raha can 100% W2W. I know, I made them, every time, because I'm not going slow for an AI that's perfectly capable of handling it.

[Lium]

People tend to get defensive and stubborn when you ask them to do something directly in chat, because then it becomes about their ego and their authority as 'the tank of this dungeon'. This is both boring and a pain to deal with so you're better off not going down that route.

There's a little trick that you can do on the sly that's pretty consistently effective, though. If you're not tanking a run and you need to speed it up, just stay silent and walk about a hair's breadth behind the tank. The instant that the the first pack gets tagged, hit sprint and move to the spot just before where the second pack activates and wait to let the tank catch up to you. As long as you signal what needs to be done wordlessly, people assume that it was always their idea in the first place. It works the vast majority of the time without bruising anyone's ego. If they're still stuck on the first pack (which can happen on rare occasion if the tank in question has very myopic situational awareness), then hesitantly come back part of the distance into their line of sight as if to curiously check out what they're still doing back there. That usually gets things moving again. As long as nobody starts typing this is usually a fairly safe strategy.

It's unfortunate because you can really speed up runs by playing dps when you're supported by a semi-competent tank who knows how to fluently pull. Most people have a tank levelled that they can run dungeons with, but it's nice to have a bit of variety.

This is actually a really good tactic that I forgot about. I do this when I’m on a DPS. I’m usually right behind the tank or often times I’m ahead of the tank. When they pull I don’t even stop running. I go all the way up to the next pack and stop just out of aggro range. But I always wait for the tank. I don’t pull for them.

9/10 the tank will come running up and pull the pack and we keep moving. It’s a great way to communicate without typing anything that could be misinterpreted as rude or whatnot.

Of course, sometimes they don’t come running up and are just back there with their single pull. And that’s fine. I just run back and start burning them down. They’ve communicated right back to me that they aren’t doing that.

No sweat off my back. I’m playing a video game and this is my hobby in my free time. An extra five minutes in a dungeon is not going to kill me. What else am I gonna do? “Quick! We need to hurry up and get this done so I can go back to standing around in Limsa!”

[technole]

Saying "you pull you tank" is a pretty clear statement on the intent to let the dps die.

I also think some of these "you pull you tank people" have not read up on prohibited activities:

Aiding the enemy / Uncooperative behavior / Lethargic behavior
Refers to an act of performing actions that give an advantage to an enemy (monsters, or the opposing team/players in PvP content) by not performing the necessary gameplay required of the situation. This may be combined with combat sabotage as well.

◆Monster Player Kill (MPK)
"MPK" is an act of sending a monster towards another person so that they are knocked out or obstructing another person's gameplay.