"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

[AbysmalDuck]

Because holding w, using an aoe and pressing 3 buttons is min/maxing.

Right, that is the problem with this thread, no one cares about the middle. It's either we want to maximize every minute of this run by having everyone pull equally or no one touch anything, but tank. It is all about intent and unfortunately, you'll never be able to determine someone's intent through a computer screen. Good luck trying. Until it somehow becomes possible, you are complaining because someone else didn't bend to your will and that is pretty shitty.

[Padudu]

you are complaining because someone else didn't bend to your will and that is pretty shitty.

lmfao "someone didn't bend to your will" you are literally clicking sprint and an aoe, if you can't do that by the time you hit late SB/ShB then idk go to tank school or something. it's not even min/max it's just straight up BASIC mechanics

i'm not saying this about new players/newer tank players btw, because obv those expectations are set differently and that's more whatever since they're just learning

[AbysmalDuck]

You do you boo, but I've learned I have a better time banging my head against the wall than to continue arguments on this forum, so have a great day!

[Padudu]

have a great day!

you too fam, appreciate you! :heart:

[Saraide]

Right, that is the problem with this thread, no one cares about the middle. It's either we want to maximize every minute of this run by having everyone pull equally or no one touch anything, but tank. It is all about intent and unfortunately, you'll never be able to determine someone's intent through a computer screen. Good luck trying. Until it somehow becomes possible, you are complaining because someone else didn't bend to your will and that is pretty shitty.

Saying "you pull you tank" is a pretty clear statement on the intent to let the dps die.

[technole]

Saying "you pull you tank" is a pretty clear statement on the intent to let the dps die.

I also think some of these "you pull you tank people" have not read up on prohibited activities:

Aiding the enemy / Uncooperative behavior / Lethargic behavior
Refers to an act of performing actions that give an advantage to an enemy (monsters, or the opposing team/players in PvP content) by not performing the necessary gameplay required of the situation. This may be combined with combat sabotage as well.

◆Monster Player Kill (MPK)
"MPK" is an act of sending a monster towards another person so that they are knocked out or obstructing another person's gameplay.

[Jojoya]

I also think some of these "you pull you tank people" have not read up on prohibited activities:

Aiding the enemy / Uncooperative behavior / Lethargic behavior
Refers to an act of performing actions that give an advantage to an enemy (monsters, or the opposing team/players in PvP content) by not performing the necessary gameplay required of the situation. This may be combined with combat sabotage as well.

◆Monster Player Kill (MPK)
"MPK" is an act of sending a monster towards another person so that they are knocked out or obstructing another person's gameplay.

"You pull you tank" generally isn't going to fall under either category. No one in the group should be pulling mobs when they don't know if the tank is ready to pick up those mobs (perhaps the tank is having connection issues or a small child ran into the room with an injury and the tank is attending to the child).

Someone who is not the tank and pulling without verifying the tank is prepared to pick up the mobs on the other hand definitely could be seen as exhibiting uncooperative behavior or attempting to MPK other party members (since healers are frequently the ones who pay the price when a DPS pulls as they'll end up with aggro from any stray mobs in the pack that DPS is not attacking).

Ultimately, it's going to come down to communication within the group.

I'd rather let the tank take the lead since they're built to withstand the damage and know what they're comfortable handling (if I'm healing and they're being exceptionally cautious I might try to encourage them to pull more but I'm not going to press them to do it). A run usually isn't going to take that much longer just because the tank is on the cautious side and depending on the party can actually make for a better social occasion as party members freely banter.

If I'm really in the mood for a speed run group, then I'll form one with players I know and trust to be capable of a speed run rather than take my chances with Duty Finder matchmaking.

[Aurora_Sylphy]

"You pull you tank" generally isn't going to fall under either category. No one in the group should be pulling mobs when they don't know if the tank is ready to pick up those mobs (perhaps the tank is having connection issues or a small child ran into the room with an injury and the tank is attending to the child).

Someone who is not the tank and pulling without verifying the tank is prepared to pick up the mobs on the other hand definitely could be seen as exhibiting uncooperative behavior or attempting to MPK other party members (since healers are frequently the ones who pay the price when a DPS pulls as they'll end up with aggro from any stray mobs in the pack that DPS is not attacking).

Ultimately, it's going to come down to communication within the group.

I'd rather let the tank take the lead since they're built to withstand the damage and know what they're comfortable handling (if I'm healing and they're being exceptionally cautious I might try to encourage them to pull more but I'm not going to press them to do it). A run usually isn't going to take that much longer just because the tank is on the cautious side and depending on the party can actually make for a better social occasion as party members freely banter.

If I'm really in the mood for a speed run group, then I'll form one with players I know and trust to be capable of a speed run rather than take my chances with Duty Finder matchmaking.

No, you pull you tank would fall under the aiding the enemy category. Note it state's 'not performing the necessary gameplay required of the situation'. A tank's job is to maintain threat, gain and keep aggro on mobs so the party is not killed by monsters. YPYT is refusing to take aggro/threat off a dps/healer/other player, and thus is deemed 'not performing the necessary gameplay', that is, not doing your role you queued in (that being a tank). Now yes, someone can report a DPS using MPK or forcing play, but that does not excuse them from their own TOS violation. At that point (where the DPS keeps pulling despite the tank saying to please not) and the Tank pulling a YPYT are both acting like shitty individuals. One does not excuse the other.

[Lium]

If I'm really in the mood for a speed run group, then I'll form one with players I know and trust to be capable of a speed run rather than take my chances with Duty Finder matchmaking.

And here's your answer, folks. When you sign up for a random group, you have to be willing to accept the randomness of it. It's what you signed up for. That's why it's called a roulette.

If you want a group to go exactly the way you want it, you need to form your own group. That's what Party Finder, Linkshells, and Discord are for. There are solutions everywhere you look in this game for whatever it is you want to do.

These types of threads are on par with that other thread someone posted about wanting some type of Elo system to gate players from running normal dungeons based on skill level. That's how stupid the forums are getting. Refreshingly, the majority of the posts in that thread were saying what a terrible idea that would be, and most pointed out how PF exists if you want really skilled players. DF is random.

That same exact answer applies to this thread.

[Nestama]

How often do people actually wipe from w2w pulls in Expert Roulette and/or Levelling dungeons? I know that some levelling dungeons can be very sketchy (65, 71, 79 and 81) with their w2w's, but a majority are pretty easy to handle. The 50/60/70/80/90 dungeons I can't really see people wiping to if a DPS/healer pulls.

Like take Antitower for example. I can go through that dungeon as WHM and never need to touch Cure II and Solace once you can w2w in there. Assize and Regen is all I need for healing :T