What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I do wish that instead of an exaggerated stylistic cutscene we'd actually been shown some raw footage of the Sundering itself. It's very telling that the game will insist on showing the effects of the likes of Black Rose in excruciating detail but that it chickened out at every possible turn when it came to showing 'mOmMy' in an unflattering light.

I'm firmly opposed to people being stripped of their agency through no fault of their own and that's something Venat is responsible for across the board. All whilst conveniently being championed as a 'saviour'.

I wonder how you'd feel if Elidibus and Venat switched roles, but everything else was the same. So Elidibus caused the sundering, Venat was the heart of Zodiark.

You seem to be real hung on on Venat being a woman. Like.. You just can't let that one thing go, it comes across are rather crass honestly.

Plus, if the Ascians succeeded, all currently living souls lose their agency, through no actions of their own.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I wonder how you'd feel if Elidibus and Venat switched roles, but everything else was the same. So Elidibus caused the sundering, Venat was the heart of Zodiark.

You seem to be real hung on on Venat being a woman. Like.. You just can't let that one thing go, it comes across are rather crass honestly.

Plus, if the Ascians succeeded, all currently living souls lose their agency, through no actions of their own.

Ah yes, pleading misogyny when someone disagrees with a video game character. Next up on how low and can the lore community go.

[Caurcas]

Venat's philosophy is one I tend to agree with. Though I can concede the way the cutscene played out was wonky. Although, to be honest the whole Ancient/Ascian/Time travel plot was a bad idea and forced them into a corner writing wise. Shoving two expansions together didn't help.

[Skyborne]

Venat's philosophy is one I tend to agree with. Though I can concede the way the cutscene played out was wonky. Although, to be honest the whole Ancient/Ascian/Time travel plot was a bad idea and forced them into a corner writing wise. Shoving two expansions together didn't help.

Same, think EW did her a disservice. I really wanted to give her a chance in ShB, there were many times in lore discussions on other platforms where I'd defend her saying we didn't get the full story... and I still feel like we didn't really get the full story. Didn't like the execution at all and how overwrought and strawmanny it all was. They had to specify some things out of game, too. But hey, at least we got to gasp and clap at the super cool Answers anime music video.

[Caurcas]

Same, think EW did her a disservice. I really wanted to give her a chance in ShB, there were many times in lore discussions on other platforms where I'd defend her saying we didn't get the full story... and I still feel like we didn't really get the full story. Didn't like the execution at all and how overwrought and strawmanny it all was. They had to specify some things out of game, too. But hey, at least we got to gasp and clap at the super cool Answers anime music video.

It's also that as a player I really don't have investment in the ancients. I had investment in Ishgard, I had investment in Ala Mhigo and Doma, I had investment in the First. However, I get a single zone with the Ancients then get told to feel sad and go fight despair. It's a mix of lack of investment and poor grounding for the player character. Now philosophical plots and lore can work, but XIV is not some like Elder Scrolls where that works.

[Lauront]

Her philosophy is fine and I agree with it to an extent (although I think part of what the story shows is a failure of imagination in some of the caricature Dead End worlds), but it's just words on paper at the end of the day, that will be forgotten in time and isn't even embraced by the Scions, who aim to minimise suffering and spread peace in their own right.

I also don't like how hamfisted some of the "themes" are. The caricature worlds, constantly repeating the same point in completely different contexts which as a result rings hollow to me given how the metaphysics of the setting are set up, the fact that the sundered as a whole are even less fit to endure this version of the Final Days (because their souls will be consumed whole) so it's mainly just a select few, with plenty of help, who actually overcome the test (meanwhile we saw how Emet-Selch and Elidibus were capable of enduring for 12k years to pursue their goal so the idea that they lack resilience is just silly), her excuses not to reveal it all to the ancients, the time travel to force that (probably my biggest issue with it all) etc.

It's just not great in my eyes. There's ways to make a point and this expansion was lacking in all subtlety.

[Caurcas]

Well that has been a issue for a long time. For all the aspirations of being a epic, the story is not structured like one. The main character, the WoL, never feels like they have any agency and instead has to have side characters speak for them. Furthermore, instead of letting the story play out XIV does have a bad habit of directly stating and restating its point and themes at the player. All the speeches wear thin, when I as the player feel more akin to a errand boy instead of this mythical hero of legend. Also the stakes never reach or feel epic. Nothing is really lost, and more is told than shown. It's tiresome.

[Lauront]

Yep. I am trying to be optimistic about the new plot but I don't think they're going to diverge too much from the formula they've now hit upon.

[Theodric]

I wonder how you'd feel if Elidibus and Venat switched roles, but everything else was the same. So Elidibus caused the sundering, Venat was the heart of Zodiark.

If the circumstances were exactly the same, then I'd be sympathetic towards Venat in such a scenario.

You seem to be real hung on on Venat being a woman. Like.. You just can't let that one thing go, it comes across are rather crass honestly.

I think that's pretty disingenuous and a rather strange assumption to make about someone you do not know. From what I recall, it isn't the first time you've implied it either - so I'm genuinely curious as to what drives such defamatory comments. If you want to know who my favourite female characters are, then you only need to ask.

Venat's gender isn't a factor as to why I dislike her. I do find the 'mOmMy GoDdEsS' thing to be a little creepy, though I'd say the same thing if - as you proposed - Elidibus was switched with Venat and it became 'dADdY goD' instead. I don't root for characters based purely on their appearance or gender.

Disagreeing with a character, who just so happens to be a woman, is not sexism. I didn't find her reasons for doing what she did to be realistic or compelling, given that she deliberately withheld key information from her people and judged them on the basis of not responding in the way she desired when the Ancients themselves had no possible way to know what, exactly, she was judging them for.

Plus, if the Ascians succeeded, all currently living souls lose their agency, through no actions of their own.

My stance has long been that it makes sense for the Sundered to do everything possible in order to survive and that expecting them to just roll over and die for the sake of the Unsundered is not a fair expectation.

With the caveat that the reverse is true as well. The Unsundered can't reasonably be expected to just roll over and die for the sake of the Sundered when such an abhorrent atrocity was inflicted upon their civilisation.

To say nothing of the simple fact that it is Venat, herself, who is ultimately responsible for the Rejoinings by willingly allowing the three Unsundered to escape the Sundering. At the time, she was possessed of the knowledge of what they would do and even stood to benefit from the Rejoinings herself on some level as it factored into her 'grand plan'. As such, it is at the feet of Hermes and Venat where I lay most of the blame as they're ultimately the duo responsible for most of the more abhorrent events in the story to date.

[Firlont]

Can you explain why it is that you do find the mother goddess motif creepy? It's common symbolism in many religions, it's not unique or unusual.