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  1. #1
    Player
    HyperiusUltima's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    1,391
    Character
    Eileen White
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 100

    WHM Desperately Needs An Overhaul

    Since the advent of 6.0, people have seen a few changes to WHM that have helped it in some cases; however, there are a few glaring issues that are causing WHM to underperform in both Savage and Dungeons as early as Sastasha:

    Thin Air Charges - The Thin Air change to Charges wiped out 4 GCDs worth of healing that we could've done from Shadowbringers and Stormblood, ripping out a gigantic chunk of our MP management kit. WHM has not gotten any recompense in regards to MP since then, making it difficult to manage when simply casting Stone in low level dungeons, thus reinforcing a bad habit to sit there and only heal like Sylphie.

    The Change to 1.5s GCD - While the change to 1.5s GCD is helpful to WHM, it is also a detriment due to their current systems in place - namely Lilies. The Lily System that WHM has forces GCD healing, causing Afflatus Misery to be a loss a majority of the time and ALWAYS a loss in Raids. One of the biggest issues right now is that WHM isn't contributing as much as it should compared to the other healers in terms of damage, especially when the other healers bring raid buffs to the table or some form of utility - WHM doesn't bring enough. Holy III also is for some ungodly reason a 2.5s GCD compared to AST's 1.5s Gravity.

    Liturgy of WHM Harm - As much as I understand Liturgy is supposed to be a large heal or multi-heal akin to SGE's Panhaima ability, it's a horribly designed ability. Why? It requires you to get HIT. WHM has absolutely no agency after they hit this skill, making it too niche to use in most situations other than set and forget. A Capstone should give the player agency to be a good ability, not just a passive heal that requires the player taking detrimental damage.

    These issues are among the most prominent of WHM, and needs be fixed.

    We do have solutions, however:

    Raise Afflatus Misery to 1240 potency. This makes Misery DPS neutral in all cases, and increases its potency to match with the likes of Glare III and ensures that you don't lose DPS because you use Lilies.

    Add a detonation button to Liturgy of the Bell. This grants the player agency on WHEN to blow it up, similar to how Macrocosmos has. This means you can place it then detonate it immediately for a BIG HEAL.

    Add 800 MP Recovery to Lily usage. This balances out WHM's MP Economy in long term fights, despite it requiring 30s to charge. If a WHM is handling their MP properly, they should not run out of MP.

    Secondary Suggestion: Make Lilies oGCD. As much as some will say "Oh, but it's the same as SGE/SCH! We can't let them have that!", this will allow WHM's Misery to ALWAYS be a gain no matter what. This idea should be considered if Afflatus Misery potency buffs are not the way forward with design.

    Lower the cooldown of the lilybell from 180 to 120 seconds. Doing this would allow Liturgy to feel more useful in terms of application, and not be limited to niche situations.

    Quote Originally Posted by WaxSw View Post
    Giving Whm a second charge of assize should be a no brainer, enables it to work as a heal as well as a dps button and helps giving whm some AoE burst healing that is lacking in its ogcd kit.
    Other healers have some form of healing burst, while WHM surprisingly has a huge lack of it for being a Pure Healer. Assize is literally just that burst, but it's also DPS, so giving a second charge to Assize might help it.

    If there are any other ideas, I'd like to hear them in this thread - they will be added to the OP provided they are substantiated and the community agrees.
    (10)
    Last edited by HyperiusUltima; 02-23-2022 at 01:04 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    WaxSw's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    657
    Character
    Waxillium Larede
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Giving Whm a second charge of assize should be a no brainer, enables it to work as a heal as well as a dps button and helps giving whm some AoE burst healing that is lacking in its ogcd kit
    (6)
    Quote Originally Posted by IttyBitty View Post
    Emnity management is a group responsibility, HP management is a group responsibility, Mitigation is a group responsibility ,DPS is a group responsibility
    Anybody saying "I only want to <x>" just tells me they are lazy and selfish.

  3. #3
    Player
    Shironeko_Narunyan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Posts
    395
    Character
    Noraneko Narunyan
    World
    Sophia
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima View Post
    there are a few glaring issues
    I see what you did there.
    (7)

  4. #4
    Player
    elioaiko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    441
    Character
    Junhee Hatsuharu
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 94
    WHM honestly at this point, needs to be nuked and reborn like they did for ARR.

    Jokes asides, WHM has had problems the moment SE decide it was going to be the "starter" healer. You'll see people say "but that's good! It needs to be easy so I don't have to think." I get that sometimes you just want to have to think but that shouldn't be at a job's detriment. Especially how braindead WHM is.

    Honestly if you took out Cure 3, Benediction, and Misery, there's literally nothing unique to WHM.

    Plenary is only there for Rapture (Medica 1) and occasionally Cure 3 for boosted healing and exists for that reason alone.

    Asylum is just a regen bubble that has slight synergy with the healing action buff.

    Benediction is a massive all-HP heal that tends to lag and ghost whole the target perishes.

    Misery is the only part of their kit that shows any sign of thought and it's at a DPS loss.

    But we know they won't go out of their way to rework it. So many people play it! So it must be thriving according to that metric.

    So the best we can hope for is DPS neutral Misery and Assize second charge along with healthy MP changes. They seem to be dead set on WHM has a skeleton for a kit and thinks that it's kit compares to the other healers.

    If people went on strike and didn't play WHM for months, the devs would quickly buff it to high heaven. I mean just look at how far they buffed AST in 5.0 l
    (1)

  5. #5
    Player
    HyperiusUltima's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    1,391
    Character
    Eileen White
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by elioaiko View Post
    WHM honestly at this point, needs to be nuked and reborn like they did for ARR.

    Jokes asides, WHM has had problems the moment SE decide it was going to be the "starter" healer. You'll see people say "but that's good! It needs to be easy so I don't have to think." I get that sometimes you just want to have to think but that shouldn't be at a job's detriment. Especially how braindead WHM is.

    Honestly if you took out Cure 3, Benediction, and Misery, there's literally nothing unique to WHM.

    Plenary is only there for Rapture (Medica 1) and occasionally Cure 3 for boosted healing and exists for that reason alone.

    Asylum is just a regen bubble that has slight synergy with the healing action buff.

    Benediction is a massive all-HP heal that tends to lag and ghost whole the target perishes.

    Misery is the only part of their kit that shows any sign of thought and it's at a DPS loss.

    But we know they won't go out of their way to rework it. So many people play it! So it must be thriving according to that metric.

    So the best we can hope for is DPS neutral Misery and Assize second charge along with healthy MP changes. They seem to be dead set on WHM has a skeleton for a kit and thinks that it's kit compares to the other healers.

    If people went on strike and didn't play WHM for months, the devs would quickly buff it to high heaven. I mean just look at how far they buffed AST in 5.0 l
    They buffed AST in 5.0 because it had the same MP issues WHM had, along with problems involved in their job system: Cards. Sleeve Draw was more or less a panic play due to the fact you rolled three cards in succession, and you used Redraw so much to get it to go. It was a pain, so they had to give it QoL to make it better.

    However, people at times get stuck in the nostalgia of WHM in the fact that it's one of the most iconic jobs in the Final Fantasy series. It's difficult to get people to boycott the job en masse like so.
    (2)

  6. #6
    Player
    DPZ2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    2,590
    Character
    Dal S'ta
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 97
    Quote Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima View Post
    however, there are a few glaring issues that are causing WHM to underperform in both Savage and Dungeons as early as Sastasha
    You lost me with this ridiculous statement. Underperform? In Sastasha? At level 15-17? Really?

    Savage, I might see. Post-70 dungeons, perhaps. But Sastasha?
    (5)

  7. #7
    Player
    ForteNightshade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    3,613
    Character
    Kurenai Tenshi
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by DPZ2 View Post
    You lost me with this ridiculous statement. Underperform? In Sastasha? At level 15-17? Really?

    Savage, I might see. Post-70 dungeons, perhaps. But Sastasha?
    While Sastasha is going a little too far, White Mage does struggle quite noticeably even below 70. It's MP economy is absolutely dreadful at 50. Granted, none of the content is remotely hard but you will absolutely bottom on spamming Stone/Holy at 50.
    (7)
    "Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honor matters."
    "The silence is your answer."


  8. #8
    Player
    Silver-Strider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,753
    Character
    Silver Strider
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    These are more QoL improvements rather than an overhaul and only addresses issues well into the leveling experience rather than something that would help it as soon as Sastasha.

    If you want to do an overhaul, it needs to address things from the ground up, like so
    Cost and Cast Time Adjustments:
    Cure 2
    1k MP -> 700 MP
    2s -> 1.5s

    Medica
    900 MP -> 700 MP
    2s -> 1.5s

    Medica 2
    1k MP -> 900 MP
    2s - 1.5s

    Cure 3
    1500 MP -> 1200 MP
    2s -> 1.5s

    Regen
    500 MP -> 400 MP

    Holy
    2.5s -> 1.5s


    Skill Adjustments:
    Aero
    Deals wind damage with a potency of 40.
    Additional Effect: Wind damage over time
    Potency: 20
    Duration: 30s
    Only one Aero spell-induced damage over time effect per caster can be inflicted upon a single target.

    Fluid Aura - Deals Water Damage with a Potency of 200.
    Additional Effect: Restore 5% of Maximum MP
    Unlock at level 15.
    Level 56: Enhanced Fluid Aura. Upgrades into Assize

    Protect - Reduces damage taken by a party member or self by 8%
    Duration: 8s
    Unlock at level 20.
    Level 86: Enhanced Protect. Upgrades into Aqua Veil

    Stoneskin - Creates a barrier around self or target party member that absorbs damage equivalent to a heal of 300 potency.
    Duration: 15s
    Unlocks at level 25.
    Level 66: Enhanced Stoneskin. Upgrades into Divine Benison

    Afflatus Solace
    Unlocks at level 30

    Afflatus Rapture
    Unlocks at level 30

    Regen
    Aeolus Additional Effect: 10% chance after each tick that the next Aero spell of any grade will add its full damage over time amount to its initial damage and cost no MP
    Duration: 40s

    Divine Seal - Increases healing magic potency by 10%, while reducing damage taken by self and all party members within a radius of 30 yalms by 5%.
    Duration: 20s
    Unlock at level 40.
    Level 80: Enhanced Divine Seal. Upgrades into Temperance.

    Cure 3
    6y -> 15y

    Graniteskin
    Creates a barrier around self and nearby party members that absorbs damage equivalent to a heal of 250 potency.
    Duration: 15s
    Unlock at level 45.
    Level 70: Enhanced Graniteskin. Upgrades into Plenary Indulgence

    Aero 2
    Deals wind damage with a potency of 40 to target and all enemies nearby it.
    Additional Effect: Wind damage over time
    Potency: 15
    Duration: 30s
    Only one Aero spell-induced damage over time effect per caster can be inflicted upon a single target.
    Unlocks at level 46.

    Medica 2
    Aeolus Additional Effect: 3% chance after each tick that the next Aero spell of any grade will add its full damage over time amount to its initial damage and cost no MP
    Duration: 40s

    Benediction
    180s CD -> 120s CD

    Asylum
    90s CD -> 60s CD

    Assize
    MP Restore 5% -> 8%

    Thin Air
    Next 2 actions are executed without MP cost.
    Duration: 15s
    Maximum Charges: 2

    Tetragrammaton
    Additional Effect: Grants 1 Lily

    Aero 3
    Deals wind damage with a potency of 50.
    Additional Effect: Wind damage over time
    Potency: 40
    Duration: 30s
    Only one Aero spell-induced damage over time effect per caster can be inflicted upon a single target.
    Unlocks at level 62.

    Aero 4
    Deals wind damage with a potency of 50 to target and all enemies nearby it.
    Additional Effect: Wind damage over time
    Potency: 30
    Duration: 30s
    Only one Aero spell-induced damage over time effect per caster can be inflicted upon a single target.
    Unlocks at level 62.

    Plenary Indulgence
    Shield Potency upgraded to 400

    Dia 2
    Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 60 to target and all enemies nearby it.
    Additional Effect: Unaspected damage over time
    Potency: 45
    Duration: 30s
    Unlocks at level 72

    Afflatus Misery
    900 potency -> 950 potency
    Additional Effect: Cleric Stance.
    Cleric Stance effect: Increases attack magic potency by 5% for 15s

    Liturgy of the Bell
    Duration: 15 -> 30s
    180s CD -> 120s CD
    Upon activation, grant 5 stacks of Liturgy of the Bell and skill changes into Lily's Bloom. Upon using Lily's Bloom, expend a stack of Liturgy to release a 400 potency heal in a 30y radius.


    Trait Adjustments:
    Freecure
    Unlocks at level 28. Upgrades Cure into Cure 2

    Aero Mastery
    Unlocks at level 62. Upgrades Aero and Aero 2 into Aero 3 and Aero 4

    Secret of the Lilies 2
    Unlocks at level 68. Restore 5% MP upon use of a Lily

    Aero Mastery 2
    Unlocks at level 72. Upgrades Aero 3 and Aero 4 into Dia and Dia 2

    Enhanced Tetragrammaton
    Allows the accumulation of charges for consecutive uses of Tetragrammaton.
    Maximum Charges: 2
    Unlocks at level 76.
    (9)
    Last edited by Silver-Strider; 02-21-2022 at 08:38 AM.

  9. #9
    Player
    Herrisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    13
    Character
    Herrisa Greywolfe
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Silver-Strider View Post
    These are more QoL improvements rather than an overhaul and only addresses issues well into the leveling experience rather than something that would help it as soon as Sastasha.
    [/HB]
    I like the direction. Some additional changes that might be nice:

    Cure II - a critical will proc the spell and cost 0 mana to cast (Free Cure should be a free cure)
    Protect - already a Bozja spell. To make it different - Protectra - and make it an 16 ilm spell aoe around the target
    Instead of Stoneskin (Bozja again) rename to Shellra


    One addition to give WHM some differentiation:

    Reraise II (Bozja names again)- Self-cast only. 75% chance to reraise IF there is a living party member. You have a 10 second countdown on the reraise popup that if you choose not to reraise you will lose it and have to wait for a regular raise. A regular raise will overwrite your reraise option. This is to stop people from cheesing mechanics. Duration of spell will last from casting to knockout so always use at start of battle.

    Edit: Oh...and can we get rid of Repose? Everyone forgets that we have that waste of space.
    (0)
    Last edited by Herrisa; 02-21-2022 at 08:20 AM.

  10. #10
    Player
    Silver-Strider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,753
    Character
    Silver Strider
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Herrisa View Post
    Snip
    Something that I was trying to do was limit button bloat as much as possible so that there wouldn't be much issue with implementation, hence why Protect, Fluid Aura, etc all upgrade into skills we currently have available. The only skill that I realistically added was an AoE DoT to the job. If people wouldn't complain about it, I would've added back Cleric Stance to function as WHM's Eukrasia, turning Cure 2/Medica into their Afflatus Equivalents while also expanding on the Lily System by reworking Misery to be the Afflatus version of Holy, adding Afflatus Versions of Medica 2 and Cure 3 as well as a single target version of Misery to act as a Glare equivalent but because all I hear with that suggestion is "Hurr durr Homogeny bad", my options to add skills that don't contribute to button bloat are extremely limited because realistically there isn't a way to include them UNLESS you add a Eukrasia button. Flat out having our skills turn into their Afflatus Versions upon gaining a lily causes conflict with skills like Glare and Holy because you end up using your Lilies outside of your control now that you HAVE to use them, which causes you to have little to no agency on when you can unleash Misery so I'm kind of stuck when it comes to including new things.

    As for your suggestions.
    I kind of went overboard on fixing WHM's MP economy that a free proc of Cure 2 is just not needed. I buffed Assize+Thin Air, reduced the cost of several abilities, made Lilies give MP, lowered the CD on several of our oGCDs, etc. that I severely overdid it.

    Protect, Protectra, Stoneskin, Shellra. What's in a name? Ultimately they'd just turn into Aqua Veil, Divine Benison, etc. so it's whatever. I called Stoneskin 2 Graniteskin because it sounded better but since it turns into PI at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter.

    Reraise seems....problematic for a number of reasons. No healer ability should be % based (Lady/Lord of Crowns are problematic for this reason alone) but to make it something that is actually somewhat abusable seeing as you could potentially cheese several other mechanics with it, if it works, doesn't seem like a balanced thing. I feel Reraise should be a status effect that occurs when a target is rezzed by 2 people at the same time that cancels out the weakness debuff that is standard with rezzing. That way, Healers don't feel like their MP was wasted unnecessarily by a lack of communication and the group suffers for it less.

    Removing Repose is fine. They can just make it into a Duty Action like Vril on Lakshmi for the 1 quest its required in and nothing would be lost.
    (1)
    Last edited by Silver-Strider; 02-21-2022 at 09:43 AM.

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