Sundering stuff established in the Q&A

[Lauront]

*snip*

I think we're in broad agreement on how to interpret his comment, in that case.

[Rannie]

Hmmmm, this is reminding me sort of but not completely on the Vorlons vrs the Shadows in Babylon 5. I say that due to the fact that neither side was right over whose idea was better at shepherding the younger races when it concerned chaos (the weak shall perish the strong shall live) against order (the strong must protect the weak etc). Granted that is a loose interpretation of the Great War with the Shadows.

Anyway my point being is when it comes to both Venat and the Ascians technically neither side is right, however one has to also look at it from the views of those who are living in the here and now. It's not that hard to see coming from their point of view how they would try to venerate Venat more before and after the entire scenario and throw shade on the likes of Emet, Lahabrea and Elidibus. Sending now so I go and edit it for more.... so I ain't done yet =P

From their current perspective it was all long done history and there was nothing they could do about it. (Even though the WoL was sent back to the past Nothing changed for them and was told that they couldn't or shouldn't change cause time loop but not going to argue with that cause fuck that).

Then there is the fact that the ascians themselves screwed up just as much, in so far as they the unsundered, had plenty of opportunity after the sundering to get the people of the source and shards swayed to their way of thinking, ie the rejoinings, instead they only decided to try to work together after twelve thousand years and blood shed., which by all accounts from the point of view of someone who is currently sundered, tantamount with not death only on a grand scale but the literal destruction of entire planets just to get their loved ones back to normal.

In the end as I said before it's easy to see how they the NPCs can see things how they do with how their lives were and how things were presented.

Note: I like both Venat and Emet Selch, as characters. I want a squeezable Emet who snaps his finger when you hug him, but both sides have screwed up and a lot of people are also forgetting the current lives that are living in the game. I myself would say to both of them though to get the hell out of my galaxy.

[KageTokage]

If anything, the sort of mind control there reminds me of what Ultima was able to effect via her auracites in the Ivalice raid series, i.e. acting on the possessor's desires to corrupt them. With it predating Zodiark's summoning, my guess is the source would be something else.

I was thinking more along the lines of there being some manner of other primal-like entity that's tempering the wardens somehow, though auracite also seems plausible given that the Heart of Sabik was implied to be far older then even the Allagans and perhaps all these shenanigans came about as a result of Lahabrea's initial tests on it.

[Rannie]

I was thinking more along the lines of there being some manner of other primal-like entity that's tempering the wardens somehow, though auracite also seems plausible given that the Heart of Sabik was implied to be far older then even the Allagans and perhaps all these shenanigans came about as a result of Lahabrea's initial tests on it.

And this still takes me back to my theory that Lahabrea is just a crazy mad scientist and still see him standing over a desk with a petri dish, a lit bunsen burner and a test tube being heated laughing magically saying, "ITS ALLLLIIVVVEEE"

And can't forget his long winded monologuing to his assistant Igor they ALWAYS have an Igor....

[RyuDragnier]

And this still takes me back to my theory that Lahabrea is just a crazy mad scientist and still see him standing over a desk with a petri dish, a lit bunsen burner and a test tube being heated laughing magically saying, "ITS ALLLLIIVVVEEE"

And can't forget his long winded monologuing to his assistant Igor they ALWAYS have an Igor....

Now watch Pandaemonium reveal him to be incredibly handsome and well meaning, just to twist a knife in us and make us sympathize for him, especially if his madness was caused by the loss of Athena.

[Rannie]

Now watch Pandaemonium reveal him to be incredibly handsome and well meaning, just to twist a knife in us and make us sympathize for him, especially if his madness was caused by the loss of Athena.

I wont fall for a ... wait did you say he may have a pretty face? ... twelve be damned!

Annnyway yeah they do sometimes go that route and make the "villians" sympathetic (not that it's a bad thing mind you) but it wouldn't surprise me either...

[MikkoAkure]

Now watch Pandaemonium reveal him to be incredibly handsome and well meaning, just to twist a knife in us and make us sympathize for him, especially if his madness was caused by the loss of Athena.

I'm half expecting for there to be a twist and Eric is actually the Lahabrea we're familiar with, and that's why there's such a discrepancy by how competent Lahabrea seemed in the past to how he was in the present.

[RyuDragnier]

I'm half expecting for there to be a twist and Eric is actually the Lahabrea we're familiar with, and that's why there's such a discrepancy by how competent Lahabrea seemed in the past to how he was in the present.

I only doubt it because Erich is unskilled with anything other than binding magicks, whereas Lahabrea is skilled with fire and creation. If anything though, Erich may be the one whom The Watcher is based on, since The Watcher was there dealing with Zodiark's cell the entire time, something Erich would be incredibly familiar with having lived in Pandaemonium most of his life.

[MikkoAkure]

I only doubt it because Erich is unskilled with anything other than binding magicks, whereas Lahabrea is skilled with fire and creation. If anything though, Erich may be the one whom The Watcher is based on, since The Watcher was there dealing with Zodiark's cell the entire time, something Erich would be incredibly familiar with having lived in Pandaemonium most of his life.

Less “this makes sense according to the narrative” and more “I feel like this is what the writers would do”. Plus there could have been a long time between then and Zodiark time. Every little Ascian had to start somewhere.

[Cleretic]

I only doubt it because Erich is unskilled with anything other than binding magicks, whereas Lahabrea is skilled with fire and creation. If anything though, Erich may be the one whom The Watcher is based on, since The Watcher was there dealing with Zodiark's cell the entire time, something Erich would be incredibly familiar with having lived in Pandaemonium most of his life.

On top of the uncertainty about 'could Erich be any good at the things we know Lahabrea to be good at', we also have the wrinkle pointed out to me before: that the Tales from the Shadows story that confirm a lot of Lahabrea's skills are also what introduced the Phoinix, thereby situating Pandaemonium as taking place after these, and confirming that the Lahabrea then and during Pandaemonium is the one we gave the smackdown in the Praetorium.

...unless we recognize and embrace that the start of a normal raid series never foreshadows how bonkers the end of it gets, in which case we can bet on both of these somehow being true, we just have to figure out how.


One thing is for sure, though: if we meet Lahabrea in Pandaemonium, he will be hot and sad. This is a Natsuko Ishikawa villain we're talking about, Ishikawa villains are always hot and sad.