Community Feedback for improvement of all existing PvP in 6.1

[Sinstrel]

I really enjoy Frontline, and the most fun thing about it is the Player vs Player experience. The things I have the least fun with are the RNG PvE objectives within the games as they reduce the amount of strategizing my team is capable of successfully executing. Could you consider reducing or removing RNG PvE elements from PvP? I had a few ideas;

1. For Borderlands (Secure) - could you remove the PvE monsters from the middle platform, and instead have the middle platform become a base? The middle base could serve to multiply the amount of points generated by the other bases your team owns. This change could make middle a highly contested area throughout the entirety of the game instead of on a 4 minute PvE pattern, increase the desirability of the outer bases, and would make it easier for new players to understand the game mode. Many new players do not understand when the PvE monsters spawn so they run around aimlessly and cannot participate unless someone types out a direct instructions, which is difficult to do in the middle of combat while playing on a controller.

2. For Fields of Glory (Shatter) - Could you consider reducing the amount of points the ice give so that PvE objectives will not grant enough points to win a game. And increasing the amount of points earned from owning the bases. This change would divide the game mode in two phases, and force players to commit to Player vs Player for the remaining half of points required for victory.

Currently, the PvE Ice monsters in Fields of Glory (Shatter) are non-interactive, do not change the tide of battle by granting buffs like Rival Wing PvE monsters, and just stand there like a training dummy. This seems out of place for a PvP game mode.

[OskarXCI]

1. For Borderlands (Secure) - could you remove the PvE monsters from the middle platform, and instead have the middle platform become a base? The middle base could serve to multiply the amount of points generated by the other bases your team owns. This change could make middle a highly contested area throughout the entirety of the game instead of on a 4 minute PvE pattern, increase the desirability of the outer bases, and would make it easier for new players to understand the game mode. Many new players do not understand when the PvE monsters spawn so they run around aimlessly and cannot participate unless someone types out a direct instructions, which is difficult to do in the middle of combat while playing on a controller.

2. For Fields of Glory (Shatter) - Could you consider reducing the amount of points the ice give so that PvE objectives will not grant enough points to win a game. And increasing the amount of points earned from owning the bases. This change would divide the game mode in two phases, and force players to commit to Player vs Player for the remaining half of points required for victory.

I like the spirit behind your suggestions for Frontline maps

My thoughts:

1. I would keep the drones and node for Secure but reduce the amount of times they spawn. One wave at 19:00 and another at 10:00 at the same time as the large node. I think it's too much of a focus on the PvE objectives in the map's current state. Also reduce the amount points you need to win a match from 1600 to 1500. Secure is the only map that can go the full match length of 20 min. The other maps never go for the full duration and tend to end between 10-16 mins in. Also increase the amounts of points you get over time for owning bases.

Right now the points over time (PoT) for owning bases is

1 base = 1 PoT
2 bases = 2 PoT
3 bases = 4 PoT
4 bases = 8 PoT
5 bases = 16 PoT
6 bases = 32 PoT

I would change it to

1 base = 2 PoT
2 bases = 3 PoT
3 bases = 5 PoT
4 bases = 10 PoT
5 bases = 20 PoT
6 bases = 40 PoT

2. Very much agree with your suggested changes for Shatter. But I would also add that you should gain more points for K.Os while inside the boundaries of a base. This to encourage more engagement around the bases and not having people in the middle of the map waiting for big ice to spawn.

[Divinemights]

1. For Borderlands (Secure) - could you remove the PvE monsters from the middle platform, and instead have the middle platform become a base? The middle base could serve to multiply the amount of points generated by the other bases your team owns. This change could make middle a highly contested area throughout the entirety of the game instead of on a 4 minute PvE pattern, increase the desirability of the outer bases, and would make it easier for new players to understand the game mode. Many new players do not understand when the PvE monsters spawn so they run around aimlessly and cannot participate unless someone types out a direct instructions, which is difficult to do in the middle of combat while playing on a controller.

2. For Fields of Glory (Shatter) - Could you consider reducing the amount of points the ice give so that PvE objectives will not grant enough points to win a game. And increasing the amount of points earned from owning the bases. This change would divide the game mode in two phases, and force players to commit to Player vs Player for the remaining half of points required for victory.

Currently, the PvE Ice monsters in Fields of Glory (Shatter) are non-interactive, do not change the tide of battle by granting buffs like Rival Wing PvE monsters, and just stand there like a training dummy. This seems out of place for a PvP game mode.

I afraid that you misunderstood Frontline fundamentally in this case.
TLDR, what I am about to say has no ill attention or on purposely trash EN/EU community as whole.

There is always a misconception about Frontline from EN/EU community, people in general thinks it is just a copy of WoW's Player vs Player battleground.
The truth is Frontline is a variation of MOBA, a subgenre of real time action strategy game.
It is somewhere between Action game and SLG game.
There are 3 teams in total and each team has 24 resources and each resource is control by one player.
The key to win a frontline is how to adopt to situation created by RNG in real time and manage your limited 24 resources.

Drones and Ice have their meaning in Secure and Shattered and it works the same way as towers in MOBA.
Many of MOBA terminology can be apply to Frontline.
For examples:
High Battle High players are ADC, they are usually veterans becomes formidable at end game and deal most of damage to enemy players.
Normal players are Pushers, they are primary responsible of fulfill objective (such as Ice and Drone) and following ADC's kill sign.
The use of terrain is also a key in Frontline like every other SLG game; however, most EU/NA players choose to push through with brute force instead of using terrain wisely.
Considering all Frontline maps terrain are well designed and each fighting node will always have two exits

Frontline is widely accepted as SLG game by JP/KO/CN and there is the main reason why you are always seeing someone taking the mantle of "commander" or "shot caller"
This person will be primary in charge of how to use this 24 resources.
In general, they will have much better Frontline experience because general players over there knew they are playing a strategy game.

When it comes to EN/EU, due to people's misunderstood of Frontline resulting to bad Frontline experience and this is why you are seeing other thread asking to delete Frontline.
Every said in that thread just showing how deep they do not understand.

[Sinstrel]

Frontline is widely accepted as SLG game by JP/KO/CN and there is the main reason why you are always seeing someone taking the mantle of "commander" or "shot caller"
This person will be primary in charge of how to use this 24 resources.
In general, they will have much better Frontline experience because general players over there knew they are playing a strategy game.

When it comes to EN/EU, due to people's misunderstood of Frontline resulting to bad Frontline experience and this is why you are seeing other thread asking to delete Frontline.
Every said in that thread just showing how deep they do not understand.

It's true a lot of people do not understand how to play Frontline. Part of that is due to SquareEnix deciding on a large amount of PvE objectives that give various amounts of points for its PvP content, and no in-game tutorial on said PvE objectives and point values. However, even those of us who do understand how Frontline is played still do not enjoy it.

While this SLG style might be fun for asian servers, it's not fun for many NA/EU players regardless of their understanding of the format. This is unacceptable due to the lack of current options for PvP content. With the addition of crystal conflict, some will like it and some wont. With such a large portion of the avid PvP community on NA/EU disagreeing on Frontline, if they also do not like crystal conflict then there will be no option for them.

Asian servers generally prefer to have a commander giving them step by step instructions. NA/EU servers generally prefer to learn/try/do things on their own, developing new playstyles. There are KO/JP/CN players who have played thousands of games and very high win rates in the large group format just as there are players like myself who have played thousands of games solo and have the same win rate. Both playstyles are totally acceptable regardless of the player's understanding of the game, many asian players come to NA/EU just to experience the freedom of doing what they want for a change.

Frontline should not be 1 playstyle only. It should allow for the flexibility so that regardless of playstyles and levels of understanding, a team can still challenge objectives and be just as formidable as any other playstyle. This would make it fun for everyone.

Tldr; There are cultural differences which make the zerging 24v24v24 strategies (not going on your own) on asian servers fun, but do not work with NA/EU's culture of independence. Square Enix should listen to our feedback to re-evaluate frontline so that it is fun for ALL paying players.

[Divinemights]

Tldr; There are cultural differences which make the zerging 24v24v24 strategies (not going on your own) on asian servers fun, but do not work with NA/EU's culture of independence. Square Enix should listen to our feedback to re-evaluate frontline so that it is fun for ALL paying players.

No, it is not the culture difference and I think that is a an awful excuse.
For one, MOBS is not playing by Asians only isn't it?
There are great MOBA players from EN/EU
It is people that refused and failed to recognize the game mode.
For example, if you are using Battlefield logic to play COD games, you certainly will not be enjoying it, vice versa.
JP datacenter is also not for JP only, it is a mix bag of every regions other than EN and EU.

The issue with Frontline is from the people, not the mode itself.
Originally, FF14 was not mean for Player vs Player like WoW.
At beginning, it was hold up by a fraction of former WoW players.
Unavoidably, when Frontline first introduced, it is seems as a 3 way WoW battleground.
Misconception carried on from there as MOBA was not a thing yet.

I also don't think it is fair to say SE didn't care about EN/EU community, after all, they introduced Onsal Hakir.
It is the only Frontline mode where SLG element can be ignored and won by brute force.
Yet, how did that works out?
Did people enjoy it?
No, I for one do not and I am pretty sure many other veterans too.
Too many people refuse to learn.
There are guides every where official and non official but people choose to ignore it.

Also, your idea of removing drones and ice is not something new.
We had that already and it was called Secure Slaughter mode.
It was proven a failure and last only about one patch after Ninja is introduced
I don't see any reason of going back to that route.

[Sinstrel]

Also, your idea of removing drones and ice is not something new.
We had that already and it was called Secure Slaughter mode.
It was proven a failure and last only about one patch after Ninja is introduced
I don't see any reason of going back to that route.

Is this what you are talking about?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jrNVe6srUc
Because if so, this is not what I am suggesting, did you read my post?

[Divinemights]

Is this what you are talking about?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jrNVe6srUc
Because if so, this is not what I am suggesting, did you read my post?

I read your post and I just can't help to disagree.
Drones and Ice have their purpose for Frontline that is a variation of MOBA as I clearly stated