Machinist's Chainsaw = fail :(

[Gruntler]

Isn't the point to learn the fight so you'll know when you need to press it?

This isn't a 'learn the fight' problem. It's a 'The ability only exists in very small windows' problem. Having abilities locked behind summons is fine. This is the opposite--it's locking utility behind 'I haven't summoned in the past five seconds.'

Contrast with Rekindle which IS the sort of ability you describe.

[MerlinCross]

If you’re gonna make chainsaw melee do it proper to Edgar and make Drill melee too.

And why not just make us pilot Queen while we’re at it cause mechanics are out the window we need to look COOL!!

[IruruCece]

If you’re gonna make chainsaw melee do it proper to Edgar and make Drill melee too.

And why not just make us pilot Queen while we’re at it cause mechanics are out the window we need to look COOL!!

I'd rather pilot queen than let its absolutely worthless AI fail to attack the target I want, or get so confused at the loss of one target it doesn't even use its attacks and goes away, wasting all that "effort" just to summon it in the first place. Until SE can actually fix pet AI to make it worth something akin to a damn, the Queen is little more than a DoT with fanservice for all five of us who played Front Mission 4 and recognize that it does that cool spinny thing before driving home the pilebunker, just like in that one CG intro.

[MerlinCross]

I'd rather pilot queen than let its absolutely worthless AI fail to attack the target I want, or get so confused at the loss of one target it doesn't even use its attacks and goes away, wasting all that "effort" just to summon it in the first place. Until SE can actually fix pet AI to make it worth something akin to a damn, the Queen is little more than a DoT with fanservice for all five of us who played Front Mission 4 and recognize that it does that cool spinny thing before driving home the pilebunker, just like in that one CG intro.

As opposed to the fanservice the other tools are, and the fact we have people demanding more fan service? Also that's a BIT of a Stretch considering Pile Bunker weapons tend to be somewhat common in Mech based IPs, not just Front Mission. Yeah FM is a Square property, but that's like trying to compare DRG's attacks to Lavitz/Albert from Legend of Dragoon. Or Monk/Samurai attacks to Xenogears. You COULD but it's a bit of a stretch.

I've gone on record elsewhere about why Piloted Queen won't work(Locking out the rest of our kit, not working with overheat, basically being ANOTHER Inner Release, STILL having to play around Wildfire, etc etc) but HEY since the topic seems to be "Let's argue for the COOL THING to be in the Job" I figured why not add it.

With Both Chainsaw and Queen, I see the arguements more for "I want to look cool" than anything else. The fact it's a Janky DoT that's WORSE than Living Shadow over on DRK, fair complaint. Taking that and making it into a second Overheat Phase is just fixing one problem with another we already have, but it looks cooler. Same with Chainsaw trying to be melee. It CAN'T be a channel, we already have that with Flamethrower and most people HATE Flamethrower. We could make it a three hit combo, but how does that work with Overheat Phase? Do we hold it before or after it? How's it going to work with this new Mounted/Piloted Queen Phase people want? And how's it going to work anyway? Do we just copy RDM with more techy effects? I've had enough heartfailure with DRGs and RDM charging in with mistimed movement skills, I'd rather not add one to MCH.

I could go on about this but..., I get the feeling people won't care. Because Edgar had a chainsaw so we need to have a chainsaw too. I just ask if we're asking for homage/ripping him off whole sail, we do it properly, which means making Drill melee too. Or is that too much?

Shall we ask for a Hockey Mask to go with this melee chainsaw?

[CKNovel]

I quit MCH until they fix the Queen and rework Flamethrower.

If there's a Mecha mode, if it's better designed than current AQ, I would be more attracted to the job.
I don't like Mechas, but I hate unfulfilling gameplay.

[IruruCece]

Shall we ask for a Hockey Mask to go with this melee chainsaw?

That you think this would somehow be bad suggests I should just ignore your posts from now on.

[MerlinCross]

That you think this would somehow be bad suggests I should just ignore your posts from now on.

I'm just saying, if you're gonna ask to be Edgar, go all the way. Because that's all people want Melee Chainsaw for, is because Edgar did it.

Because that's the only Machinist we have to pull from and is the poster boy so obviously we need to clone him into MCH. So why NOT just ask for Hockey Mask Chainsaw Melee Combo. Ooooh Maybe next expansion we can get Debilitator and Noiseblaster!

I quit MCH until they fix the Queen and rework Flamethrower.

If there's a Mecha mode, if it's better designed than current AQ, I would be more attracted to the job.
I don't like Mechas, but I hate unfulfilling gameplay.

I fail to see how adding a Mecha Mode would make the job have more fullfilling gameplay when again, it's just another Overheat or Inner Release window. We've just replaced jank with jank but cooler. Honestly I've been worried about how they would integrate Queen into gameplay since I saw it and they.... haven't really. It's just fancy DoT that you have to build up to. I'd like to maybe have it interact with Heat or Battery Management, letting it do different attacks based on the level you're at forcing you to do a balancing act of trying to stay at certain thresholds for max damage, before synching up with Timers to go into Overheat/Load state and just slam everything in.

It's not the perfect solution(Wildfire why you do) but it's more interaction than "Do you have 100 battery, here queen, watch queen punch, queen go bye. No 100? No Queen for you" we have now. Battery shouldn't be JUST summoning our DoTs and having a weird bonus to their damage.

Flamethrower..., recycle it. Just throw it into the smelter and do something with it. It only existed really to raise heat, was weird and clunk to do so, and now is just kinda.... there.

If you want an idea, just an idea mind you; Have Battery hit 100 and let you summon Queen, this summoning does not eat up Battery, but she still has a CD and a timer, let's say.... 40 seconds? Now instead of JUST Queen punching, you have attacks like Flamethrower(Or even Chainsaw) that augment Your Queen, letting it do different attacks or configurations, at the cost of Battery. So rather than you having to do the clunky Flamethrower, or Melee Chainsaw that puts you in danager, you have the robot helper do the work for you. When Battery is drained, Queen loses this bonus but stays for her full timer. Of course you can just hit the "Finisher" button to make Queen do her huge hit so you can get some burst just before transition.

That gives a little more interaction, gives Battery a better reason to exist, and takes Queen from Just a Dot. Sure it's still a DoT but you have a bit more control of what type of dot it does, or different debuffs(Like Chainsaw adding a Bleed or Damage up to the enemy... that second one is a WHOLE other Kettle of fish to talk about given Ninja's History).

Only thing left would be to work in Overheat...., which spitballing here, Overheat doubles Battery Generation from some skills so you can keep your strongest Tool/ARM/Weapon on Queen for longer. Just have Gauss Round and Ricochet generate battery during Overheat.

Oh and maybe make Reassemble do something in this set up too. I dunno, I got into it and started rambling, trying to make this all work without terribly much changes or drastic design turns. I do admit this is still kinda... DoT ish but it's that or whatever Summoner has working for it now(I get confused any time I open their ability page).

[Azurarok]

I don't think many of us are willing to deal with MCH having a gap closing or melee range move unless we get another Gun job to cover the current style (Cannoneer? Corsair?). I find its current charm is in how static its rotation is, which afaik is only really possible because it doesn't have to worry about rng procs or being in melee range.

As mentioned by some others, having some oGCDs for the Automaton Queen that don't shut it down could be neat. That or having it always out like old SMN and spend battery to do an oGCD melee combo or somesuch. Dunno if the AI can handle that sort of thing reliably though, especially with high ping.

[MerlinCross]

I don't think many of us are willing to deal with MCH having a gap closing or melee range move unless we get another Gun job to cover the current style (Cannoneer? Corsair?). I find its current charm is in how static its rotation is, which afaik is only really possible because it doesn't have to worry about rng procs or being in melee range.

As mentioned by some others, having some oGCDs for the Automaton Queen that don't shut it down could be neat. That or having it always out like old SMN and spend battery to do an oGCD melee combo or somesuch. Dunno if the AI can handle that sort of thing reliably though, especially with high ping.

That is the problem ain’t it? The AI.

That’s probably why they aren’t willing to do anything terribly different or out there is due to AI and Ping. Roping back into the topic of chainsaw(again I went on a bender), the options they seemed to have to work with is either melee combo(which I vote no) or Ability instant cast.

I mean, I half pictured summoning those large beyblades the empire likes using(Say boss of aroma castle). Does AoE damage if enemies are inside but could be launched at your target with another cast. But with how it has to fit in with raid buffs, targeting issues, and Overheat/Wildfire; that idea wasn’t going to work.

So while I’m against melee chainsaw, what’s the alternative from what we have now?

[Azurarok]

So while I’m against melee chainsaw, what’s the alternative from what we have now?

Maybe just a visual change where a pod (YoRHa ones? Ishgardian Chess Knights?) equipped with a chainsaw does a sweep?