Is ranged support dps needed as a job type anymore?

[deadman1204]

Notice its only ranged who say the free movement is pointless and shouldn't be counted against them.

Try having to stand still and do mechanics when the fights are HARD. Sure you have them memorized now and are over geared.

[Thi]

Notice its only ranged who say the free movement is pointless and shouldn't be counted against them.

Try having to stand still and do mechanics when the fights are HARD. Sure you have them memorized now and are over geared.

Done it in the past, ran caster in previous raid tiers. Its not any harder if you use two braincells and preposition.

[Rika007]

Notice its only ranged who say the free movement is pointless and shouldn't be counted against them.

Try having to stand still and do mechanics when the fights are HARD. Sure you have them memorized now and are over geared.

Literally did an entire Savage tier on the most un-mobile job in the game (WHM). Did all 3 casters for 3 other tiers. Cleared all those tiers in less then a month each time and that wasn't with hard progging every week either. And played all of them at a pretty decent level too.

So saying this as a Bard main who has played on jobs that "have to stand still and do mechanics when the fights are HARD" and do them when I did not have them "memorized" or was "over geared" let me be very explicit here. Free movement means absolutely NOTHING in this game.

[Cabalabob]

Literally did an entire Savage tier on the most un-mobile job in the game (WHM). Did all 3 casters for 3 other tiers. Cleared all those tiers in less then a month each time and that wasn't with hard progging every week either. And played all of them at a pretty decent level too.

So saying this as a Bard main who has played on jobs that "have to stand still and do mechanics when the fights are HARD" and do them when I did not have them "memorized" or was "over geared" let me be very explicit here. Free movement means absolutely NOTHING in this game.

People say range and mobility means nothing, but it does and this is a fact because we’ve seen it before during 2.0 when literally everyone was a BRD because it brought the highest damage while also being ranged and mobile with extra party support.

Should the gap between jobs be as big as it is? Probably not. With how toned down the support aspect of the ranged role has been it is purely range and mobility that gives them their tax. MCH in particular should be doing MUCH more than it is right now. But should it be equal to SAM or BLM? Absolutely not.

You can say “fights are scripted, once you learn a job it’s hindrances don’t matter”. But it doesn’t change that if an AoE is fired at a BLM they give up a hard cast to move out of it while a MCH can move freely, if a mob does a point blank AoE a SAM has to time moving out so that they get their GCD rolling and get out of range just before it goes off and have to get back in again before their GCD rolls around while a MCH can just walk off as soon as the AoE appears and never come back.

[Rika007]

People say range and mobility means nothing, but it does and this is a fact because we’ve seen it before during 2.0 when literally everyone was a BRD because it brought the highest damage while also being ranged and mobile with extra party support.

Should the gap between jobs be as big as it is? Probably not. With how toned down the support aspect of the ranged role has been it is purely range and mobility that gives them their tax. MCH in particular should be doing MUCH more than it is right now. But should it be equal to SAM or BLM? Absolutely not.

You can say “fights are scripted, once you learn a job it’s hindrances don’t matter”. But it doesn’t change that if an AoE is fired at a BLM they give up a hard cast to move out of it while a MCH can move freely, if a mob does a point blank AoE a SAM has to time moving out so that they get their GCD rolling and get out of range just before it goes off and have to get back in again before their GCD rolls around while a MCH can just walk off as soon as the AoE appears and never come back.

If one of your big reasons for why they shouldn't do something is the balance of the game nearly 9 years ago when they still thought having an accuracy stat was a good idea, I just don't know what tell ya honey. The amount of things they've put in and removed to enforce a parity amongst the DPS between then and now has insured there will never be the 2 monks 2 Bards meta of early 2.0. LB generation, 1% role contribution, lack of synergistic abilities like piercing debuff, etc etc the list goes on and on. We are never gonna see a meta like that again.

Even if we were to just set a hard line and go: Alright ultimate parity time. The most greedy dps of each role will all be in line with each other dps wise. MCH, SAM, BLM all will do the same damage. Then the middle of the pack dps roles in utility will all do the same damage as well. RPR, MNK, NIN, DRG, SMN. Then the more support heavy ones will all be on the same level as well. BRD, DNC, RDM. And you went ahead and said we will have a 100-200 rdps gap between all 3 of those 'tiers' you STILL wouldn't have a hard locked meta of all Machinist because no group in their right minds would A) take the hit to their raid wide dps losing the extra 2% damage from not having 2 present roles, and B) NO ONE WOULD WANT TO.

And the idea of a Black Mage dropping a cast now is hilarious. Black Mage as a job now is more mobile then Bard and Machinist were in Heavensward. You literally swim in instant casts on that role. Maybe you would have a point if we still had the mechanics of 2.0 and 3.0 that really enforced a party to split up and ranged roles with their perfect uptime could shine. But that isn't the case.

[Rilifane]

People say range and mobility means nothing, but it does and this is a fact because we’ve seen it before during 2.0 when literally everyone was a BRD because it brought the highest damage while also being ranged and mobile with extra party support.

Exactly, during 2.0.
It once mattered but that was years ago and it's time to let go of this idea that range tax is well-deserved when it's just a relic of the past because fights and toolkits have been designed around much better uptime for casters and melees. Even BLM, the "turret", has become incredibly mobile and it was already mobile enough in Shb.
With the addition of the 5% reduction for the opposite damage type on Addle/ Feint and more partywide heals/ shields on dps other than phys ranged, added mobility for all casters and more melee-friendly mechanics in Ex and above, there is absolutely nothing phys ranged has over other dps jobs that would justify this gap.

Look at the statistics and you'll notice that other dps start higher than phys ranged although they are supposed to have the advantage in the lower percentiles because melees and casters still need to learn to map and greed properly while the phys ranged have full mobility, such a huge advantage! They don't have to worry about dps loss!
If it was an advantage then phys ranged would start higher than others and fall behind as gameplay improves, but no. They're always bottom tier.
No matter the gameplay level, casters and melees are always signifcantly ahead.

[Reinha]

Try having to stand still and do mechanics when the fights are HARD. Sure you have them memorized now and are over geared.

Which dps jobs have to stand still? BLM. That doesn't explain why other ones blow ranged jobs completely out of the water. RDM and SMN can raise and heal but they do more damage than MCH and BRD who can't. Some melee have healing utility and they do so much more damage that bringing a ranged is not even worth it for the 1% party bonus.

[Azuri]

Which dps jobs have to stand still? BLM. That doesn't explain why other ones blow ranged jobs completely out of the water. RDM and SMN can raise and heal but they do more damage than MCH and BRD who can't. Some melee have healing utility and they do so much more damage that bringing a ranged is not even worth it for the 1% party bonus.

Might want to check your sources. RDM and SMN are both very much in "physical ranged" damage group. And as long as logs exist, it will always be worth to bring a job for 1% role bonus. Kihra out there doing more work to keep all roles desirable better than SE ever did.