Please Give Support For Solo Savage Raids

[CyanTea]

Tales series, Final Fantasy 12, Ni No Kuni, Eternal sonata, Grandia 1 and 2.

If I'm not mistaken most of your suggested titles are more or less typical action'y-JRPGs. I like these games - but they don't offer the kind of, so to say, "mechanical" complexity and character customization this game has.
Thank you for the suggestions nevertheless, fren.


With FFXII I agree. It is essentially a single-player version of FFXI after all. Still not quite the same, though.

This is some what belittling.

Although, I don't have any experience with Ultimates - I mediocrely tanked through multiple savage raid tiers and it boils down to exactly that. Just assign your position, follow the already established "strat" via guide and do the mechanics - no need to communicate whatsoever, other than occasional out of courtesy "Hello!"/"I must now take my leave!"

Sure, from time to time someone would ask when to use Reprisal, or if I want to be MT or OT (despite having the tank stance on).
But I don't think it makes this that much different.

Why bother with potentially inconsistent real-life individuals when you can just play with NPC's and no longer have to deal with rolling for loot?

True. However, from the perspective of a sociable person: why bother with gearing up squadrons and then also micromanaging them in-game (that is, if my impossible idea was somehow implemented) - while it would be much easier and fun to complete the hard content with a group of like-minded individuals?

Ultimately you suggestion - if implemented - would kill a lot of the raiding scene and get rid of the social aspect of it. It's just a mediocre idea which is very unlikely to be added as an option.

As I said, in my opinion, it will just clear the Party Finder out of people who don't want to (or in some cases "can't") deal with people. It would definitely decrease the amount of Hard-Duty listings - I agree.
However there still would be plenty of players who view social interaction as an enjoyable activity rather than a bother - all the RP advertisements in Party Finder is proof of that.

But - yes, it will never be implemented.

[Saidosha]

PF would be absolutely dead. And statics would struggle to recruit. Why compete against 7 other people for loot when you can just solo the instance and claim all your BiS in a week or two?

This is the fun part when people aggressively push the online multiplayer agenda. If this actually took place, doesn't it mean people weren't enjoying the multiplayer aspect to begin with?

I suspect what some fail to realize is that there are layers of player interaction that go beyond being in a party with people.
1) The AH thrives on others selling and buying things accrued by whatever means they prefer without the need of direct communication.
2) FATEs can be completed by multiple people without them actually grouping up.
3) A higher level passerby can save someone lower level from dying or just helping them finish a quest objective more swiftly.
4) Someone standing around in an appealing glam can start up a conversation, be it public or private.
5) Zone-wide communication may not be commonly used, but it's still there and can do its job. (Where's Krile hiding? Hunt train status? Where'd the compass go? etc.)

...and more I'm either likely overlooking off the top of my head or doesn't directly apply to XIV and its present systems. Not forcing people into groups for everything does not eliminate online interactions. It just makes them voluntary if you're in the mood, want a change of pace, or perhaps a bit more efficiency.


Otherwise, getting salty that (E)RP requests may outnumber content groupings at some random point in the day should be telling you that maaaaaaaybe there is an audience for that kind of stuff and it serves as a venue of player-generated content that further bolsters sub numbers and shop sales for glamours. Consider your disdain may very well run parallel with the "party all da thingz!" mentality for those who just don't want to or can't. This is a digital space. There is room for all willing. Gatekeeping really isn't required even if it does try to masquerade as devs having limited resources to play with so we'll just thumb our nose or whatever snark. Otherwise going down that path contributes to why MMOs have grown stagnant because there is this vehement obsession over what he genre is as opposed to what it could be.

[kaynide]

I understand what you are saying, but I don't believe old content should rot. Having older content as a trust or squadron will hurt no one. The systems are already in place. I think people get to hung up on 'we gotta have something new or the game will die' I would rather have something engaging even if it's a rework of older content. What is kinda sad to me is many dungeons in MMOs get left behind and they just sit there. Content that when it was new it was fun, why can't it be spruced up and reused or at the very least reused for a trust or squad? But back to the point of the thread, newer content that is group content should remain that way for at least 2 years or until more is released. I had a thought about retaining the uniqueness of gear gotten from newer content. It could be color coded and not in the way you think. During the first 3 months of new content any gear that drops the name should be in purple, after 3 months the gear name would be in blue etc changing the color of the name would show who completed the content when it was new and current, and lower colors would signify who completed it when it got changed because the content was older. Maybe that would help keep the uniqueness of a item. Just a thought.

The problem is that the trust/squad ai isn’t a generic ai. I’m not against trust/squad for all story content (anything involved to clear the actual main story), and even possibly normal mode raids, but once you start delving into side content like savage or ex trials, it’s asking too much when the devs have been very clear fight balancing takes massive time.

For me, the point of being able to clear savage is being able to have enough teamwork, connections, or skill to clear it. Make those trusts and all you need to do is dodge mechanics as the other 7 will do all the heavy lifting.

Everything is working fine as is. You can find new challenge in old content by trying to low man it, or bluemage it, or ultimately solo it with crazy workarounds. No need to make it “just join and stand around while 7 ai do the work”, especially at the expense of other content.


It has to be custom tailored for every single dungeon and every single fight. I don’t think they can interact with objects like the Bertha cannons. Even a generic ai wouldn’t work because some fights you have to do x, then y then z which would need hard coding into the ai for each fight that kinda thing happens.

[xxmiamorecadenza]

This is the fun part when people aggressively push the online multiplayer agenda. If this actually took place, doesn't it mean people weren't enjoying the multiplayer aspect to begin with?

Ya'll are legit confusing me. Like legit. Both you and CyanTea's logic make zero sense to me. Stripping an MMO of its multi-player aspects doesn't compute with me at all. Nor will it ever. MMO's should maintain MMO elements.

Sorry if you want less MMO in your MMO.

[TaleraRistain]

I could get behind this. They already started this to some degree with the "super echo" in HW content and under, but I think after a certain point (2-3 years) most pieces of content should be easily soloable.

I think either this or Packetdancer's take would be the right path. If they didn't want to provide alternate paths to getting items, then a path that wouldn't cut too much into development time might be building on that Epic Echo idea for older content. For instance, if missing a multi-person mechanic would result in a wipe, then allow the Epic Echo to let missing it be recoverable from instead.

Even outside of Savage, someone mentioned the Yojimbo fight and how a mechanic makes that fight require a certain number of people. So in that case, SE could still have the chains happen, but it wouldn't result in instant death and a party of lower than that number could have a chance of clearing.

[CyanTea]

Stripping an MMO of its multi-player aspects doesn't compute with me at all. Nor will it ever. MMO's should maintain MMO elements.

Likewise. I can't quite understand how exactly adding an option to do somewhat niche content with a group of bots would outright "strip an MMO of its multiplayer aspects". As I said, I think if someone would rather play with real people - they would.
Although, when I think about it - adding NPCs to current Savage tiers would indeed be kind of a bad idea - until the echo is introduced, that is.
But there's definitely needs to be more options to actually experience the old content, so to speak.


Talking about "dead" Party Finder: how often do you see, something like synced Alexander (Savage) listings? Barely, I wager. Heck, as I said even earlier - there are almost no (practice/clear) groups for the current trials, since it's already become obsolete content.

[IdowhatIwant]

Likewise. I can't quite understand how exactly adding an option to do somewhat niche content with a group of bots would outright "strip an MMO of its multiplayer aspects". As I said, I think if someone would rather play with real people - they would.
Although, when I think about it - adding NPCs to current Savage tiers would indeed be kind of a bad idea - until the echo is introduced, that is.
But there's definitely needs to be more options to actually experience the old content, so to speak.


Talking about "dead" Party Finder: how often do you see, something like synced Alexander (Savage) listings? Barely, I wager. Heck, as I said even earlier - there are almost no (practice/clear) groups for the current trials, since it's already become obsolete content.

This is because most people are just going to solo the content or will do this with one or two friends. As much as people want to say content stays relevant in this game due to the min ilvl setting, that is absolutely not true. If you joined this game cause you heard this on youtube / twitch than you fell for it. The player base in reality decides what is relevant and what is not.

I still hold my stance, if you wanting everything in this game to be a single player experience, you are playing the wrong genre of game. That being said this game is already mostly single player so go enjoy that content cause it was designed for you.

[kaynide]

Likewise. I can't quite understand how exactly adding an option to do somewhat niche content with a group of bots would outright "strip an MMO of its multiplayer aspects".

It's not that it would remove MMO aspects so much as that it would require a significant amount of man hours to create such a system- a system that very few people would actually use when there are already other options available (doing it as intended, low-manning, even soloing eventually). These man hours would be taken away from what could go into other content such as a deep dungeon which would have a much broader audience.

[Tlamila]

Talking about "dead" Party Finder: how often do you see, something like synced Alexander (Savage) listings? Barely, I wager. Heck, as I said even earlier - there are almost no (practice/clear) groups for the current trials, since it's already become obsolete content.

You don't see listings, but it doesn't mean that if you make a PF yourself people won't join.
There are so many things people actually want to run but are too lazy to make a PF for it themselves.

If you look at the most frequent postings it's indeed always the latest content, as you said even the last EXes don't pop much there anymore, and savage postings are mostly for p4 or reclears already.
But make a pf for anything and you'll get a full group pretty fast.
So someone else not posting stuff on PF is not really an indiction of nobody wanting to do it. The number of people who actively post compared to those who just look for postings is really small. If you want to do a duty, you'll find people to do it with.

And throwing even savage to the solo queue category would be super depressing. This game has way too many solo aspects already for an MMO.

[CyanTea]

I understand that my English still needs a lot of work, but I swear, sometimes it feels like I'm spouting incomprehensible nonsense. I apologize if that's the case.

This is because most people are just going to solo the content or will do this with one or two friends. As much as people want to say content stays relevant in this game due to the min ilvl setting, that is absolutely not true.

Perhaps I misunderstood you, but I was never of opinion that the content in this game stays indefinitely relevant, quite the opposite in fact. I even said this in my previews post. And I joined this game first and foremost because I enjoy this franchise.
But at least you acknowledge the problem that needs to be fixed. And hence I think adding bots would be a good way to alleviate it (that is if developers had enough resources to do this). And without interfering with the player base (content cycle, to be honest) that decides what is relevant and what is not.

And, also, regarding the old content: how exactly would it be different from the current state of just brainlessly steamrolling everything unsync'ed - alone or with a couple of "friends"/randoms if there's a mechanic that requires more than 1 person?

Once again I fail to see how making the only way to test the player's knowledge of the game's combat system more accessible for the solo players will cause "everything in this game to be a single-player experience". I think you're grossly exaggerating.

you are playing the wrong genre of game

MASSIVELY multiplayer game and it caters only to a certain type of individual? Sheesh! Hehehe.
I most definitely won't disagree, though. People like me are generally not welcome anywhere. But as I said, there's currently nothing similar to this game on the market.

It's not that it would remove MMO aspects so much as that it would require a significant amount of man hours to create such a system- a system that very few people would actually use when there are already other options available (doing it as intended, low-manning, even soloing eventually). These man hours would be taken away from what could go into other content such as a deep dungeon which would have a much broader audience.

Yes. I've already stated that probability of adding "smart" bots in hard content is nigh impossible. But am I allowed to dream, eh? I want to dream. Still, I'm looking forward to a new Deep Dungeon and I hope "penny pinchers" at SE will someday decide to allocate more money to this game rather than its advertisement.