Please Give Support For Solo Savage Raids

[Snorky]

As they say, time is money. There simply isn’t enough personnel, budget or time to do everything. It is always always always an “either or” when it comes to game development. It’s the same reason Viera/Hrothgar don’t have hats.

They absolutely should, but it’s just not high enough on their priority list- they simply don’t have the man hours free to dedicate towards side stuff like this. Or rather, they don’t want to.

I understand what you are saying, but I don't believe old content should rot. Having older content as a trust or squadron will hurt no one. The systems are already in place. I think people get to hung up on 'we gotta have something new or the game will die' I would rather have something engaging even if it's a rework of older content. What is kinda sad to me is many dungeons in MMOs get left behind and they just sit there. Content that when it was new it was fun, why can't it be spruced up and reused or at the very least reused for a trust or squad? But back to the point of the thread, newer content that is group content should remain that way for at least 2 years or until more is released. I had a thought about retaining the uniqueness of gear gotten from newer content. It could be color coded and not in the way you think. During the first 3 months of new content any gear that drops the name should be in purple, after 3 months the gear name would be in blue etc changing the color of the name would show who completed the content when it was new and current, and lower colors would signify who completed it when it got changed because the content was older. Maybe that would help keep the uniqueness of a item. Just a thought.

[Packetdancer]

I understand what you are saying, but I don't believe old content should rot. Having older content as a trust or squadron will hurt no one. The systems are already in place.

Except it will.

Trust AI is a not-small investment of time, since they need to have mechanics programmed in for every single bit of content they can run. Squadrons don't, but squadrons are notoriously frustrating as they'll stand in the bad and fail to do important mechanics -- which is why even within the level range they do cover, I don't believe they can be taken into every dungeon in that range. If there are mechanics in that dungeon that will wipe the group if not done right, it's just omitted from the squadron 'Command Mission' options.

Trials and normal-mode raids are even more difficult from an AI standpoint, because not only are those (raids especially) designed with mechanics you need to execute correctly, they involve eight characters. And while you can survive a surprising amount of the party being down in normal mode raids, in savage raids having even one or two down is a huge problem in more than a few mechanics. (Heck, it can be a problem in extreme trials, too.)

They've said before that the necessity to make bespoke dungeon-specific AI for all the trust members (so that they do mechanics but also behave according to their roles -- and to their personalities, since the story/character is a crucial part of the game) is one reason they limit the number of dungeons added in story patches now. To go back and add trust support to all previous dungeons prior to level 71 is thus presumably a huge amount of work. To also do so for all the story-mode trials and raids would make the workload even more severe, and doing so for extreme trials and savage raids beyond that... I shudder to think.

Because, as has been said by others, there's a limited amount of developer time and resources.

Not because "small indie developer", as people like to snarkily respond in such threads, but there's a practical limit to how much staff you can put on a project and still have it meaningfully increase the amount of work you can do; work can only be subdivided and done in parallel up to a certain point. After that point, you end up with four people depending on work done by one other person, who are stuck sitting idle until that person is done. And it's easy to say "well, then they should work on something else!" but if you have a battle designer stuck sitting idle waiting for someone else, you don't want them going and trying to do 3D art to make more Hrothgar-friendly hats. If you have an AI developer for trusts stuck waiting for a dungeon to be done, you don't really want them going to help write the MSQ or design a map zone. Resources on a project are not interchangeable cogs.

Taking a massive chunk of that development resource 'pool' and allocating it to turn a bunch of even the pre-Shadowbringers MSQ-required content (i.e., past dungeons and normal-mode trials) into Trust-friendly variants would be a huge amount of work. Doing so for purely optional content like savage raids would be far, far worse... especially because we've not seen Trusts executing mechanics on a level that would be suitable for savage, much less doing so while outputting DPS to a degree that would pass some of the savage DPS checks. That suggests to me the Trust system would potentially need some significant technical work before it would be viable, even if it works conceptually.

This is why I think having alternative methods to get the gear from the optional content in past expansions is a better approach -- and far, far lower-impact on developer time/resources.

[IdowhatIwant]

I understand what you are saying, but I don't believe old content should rot. Having older content as a trust or squadron will hurt no one. The systems are already in place. I think people get to hung up on 'we gotta have something new or the game will die' I would rather have something engaging even if it's a rework of older content. What is kinda sad to me is many dungeons in MMOs get left behind and they just sit there. Content that when it was new it was fun, why can't it be spruced up and reused or at the very least reused for a trust or squad? But back to the point of the thread, newer content that is group content should remain that way for at least 2 years or until more is released. I had a thought about retaining the uniqueness of gear gotten from newer content. It could be color coded and not in the way you think. During the first 3 months of new content any gear that drops the name should be in purple, after 3 months the gear name would be in blue etc changing the color of the name would show who completed the content when it was new and current, and lower colors would signify who completed it when it got changed because the content was older. Maybe that would help keep the uniqueness of a item. Just a thought.

No. As it is almost every dungeon 1-90 can be done with trusts or squadron. If I am not mistaken the only content is from 60-70 where there is no squadron or trust system.
As far as all this needing trusts for old raids / trials, most of that stuff you can solo at some point so I don't see the reason for adding a solo trust option for this.
The color coded gear is not a good idea, people already complain about parsers/fflogs and how it creates a toxic environment. Color coded gear based on when you cleared content is just another thing for people to potentially be toxic about or have a whole fit over. This is a very very bad idea.

Honestly I think the entire trust system and squadron system should just be removed from the game entirely. If you want to play with NPC's or play solo why pick up an Massive Multiplayer Online title in the first place multiplayer is part of what defines the genre to begin with. This game already has a MSQ which 99% of it is solo content with the exception of the 9 total things you have to run with a group. If anything there needs to be more party focused content.

[Snorky]

No. As it is almost every dungeon 1-90 can be done with trusts or squadron. If I am not mistaken the only content is from 60-70 where there is no squadron or trust system.
As far as all this needing trusts for old raids / trials, most of that stuff you can solo at some point so I don't see the reason for adding a solo trust option for this.
The color coded gear is not a good idea, people already complain about parsers/fflogs and how it creates a toxic environment. Color coded gear based on when you cleared content is just another thing for people to potentially be toxic about or have a whole fit over. This is a very very bad idea.

Honestly I think the entire trust system and squadron system should just be removed from the game entirely. If you want to play with NPC's or play solo why pick up an Massive Multiplayer Online title in the first place multiplayer is part of what defines the genre to begin with. This game already has a MSQ which 99% of it is solo content with the exception of the 9 total things you have to run with a group. If anything there needs to be more party focused content.

You have a very narrow view. Trusts and squadrons won't be removed. Just because this is a MMO doesn't mean everything must be done with other people.

I get it you don't like my color coded gear tell me how that will be any more toxic then insisting people must do everything as a group?

[IdowhatIwant]

You have a very narrow view. Trusts and squadrons won't be removed. Just because this is a MMO doesn't mean everything must be done with other people.

I get it you don't like my color coded gear tell me how that will be any more toxic then insisting people must do everything as a group?

Yes because it is an MMO, I would actually expect a large aspect of things in the game to be done with other players. I would not call that a narrow view, I would call that a realistic expectation of the genre based on past and current experiences.

I explained the why the color coded gear would be toxic. It is just another way for players to call each other out for x or y. I personally don't care if it is color coded to show when people cleared content, but I could see that spiraling out of control quickly when PFs say must link purple gear. And that would 100% happen.

As far as insisting players to do things in a group in an MMO is toxic, I don't even know what to say about that. But once again I retain that on launch FF expansions are 99% solo content with the exception of about 9 things you have to complete as a group. If you want to get technical on it in EW of those 9 things, 2 of them had to be done as a party. I think you get more than enough solo content with that alone for a MMO game.

[LittleImp]

Until they massively improve the trust system, it will forever remain a detriment to the quality of encounter design. You can tell that a lot of the trust-enabled content is designed with "But would this work with trusts?" constantly in mind, and a lot of the mechanical concepts suffer as a result. Retroactively applying it to content, particularly high-complexity content like savage would be virtually impossible in its current state.

[xxmiamorecadenza]

PF would be absolutely dead. And statics would struggle to recruit. Why compete against 7 other people for loot when you can just solo the instance and claim all your BiS in a week or two?

[CyanTea]

If you want to play a single player game, don't play an MMO.

I see this thrown around quite a bit.
Can you/anyone else kindly recommend any single-player vidja with similar battle system and level of customization?
Combat-wise the only thing that comes to mind is Xenogears Chronicles and that's about it.

Savage and extremes are some of the most social content in the game; turning them into solo duties would cripple their purpose.

How assigning where you should stand with a macro or (preferably) a waymarker is a most social interaction is quite beyond me...

the topic at hand has nothing to do with it.

Well, I was just being facetious. I don't really take the forums (or anything) seriously - it's just empty talk.

But still, it kind of gets to me when I see ~10-12 "hard-duty" groups juxtaposed with ~30-40 "I'm opening a sex-bar, or somesuch!" groups ― I think, it says a lot about our great community and the people I'm playing with, so to speak.

Would you be willing to sacrfice new content in order for them to adjust old content and/or trust/squadron AI

To be honest, if hiring another intern, or whoever they can afford with the minuscule budget SE allocates to the developer team, to improve AI of NPCs means we're going to lose another braindead FATE grind with lootboxes - Yes, please!

PF would be absolutely dead. And statics would struggle to recruit. Why compete against 7 other people for loot when you can just solo the instance and claim all your BiS in a week or two?

Again, that's not going to happen but I think in the environment in which hard content could be done with a group of NPCs - the "statics" will actually thrive and it would be easier to clear raids/trials, considering that asocial, unhinged liabilities like myself won't be around.

And just as a reminder, back in A Realm Reborn and Heavensward party finder was World based - and it wasn't dead - on Odin and Gilgamesh at least.

Personally, I don't care about "loot", especially considering how freaking ugly and unimaginative the gear-sets from current and previous expansion are.
I simply want to experience and figure mechanics on my own without spoiling everything with a guide, annoying other players with my silent attitude and, excuse me, being handicapped by the handicapped.

[IdowhatIwant]

I see this thrown around quite a bit.
Can you/anyone else kindly recommend any single-player vidja with similar battle system and level of customization?
Combat-wise the only thing that comes to mind is Xenogears Chronicles and that's about it.

Tales series, Final Fantasy 12, Ni No Kuni, Eternal sonata, Grandia 1 and 2. Most of these you can get on PC or Playstation.

How assigning where you should stand with a macro or (preferably) a waymarker is a most social interaction is quite beyond me...

This is some what belittling.

But still, it kind of gets to me when I see ~10-12 "hard-duty" groups juxtaposed with ~30-40 "I'm opening a sex-bar, or somesuch!" groups ― I think, it says a lot about our great community and the people I'm playing with, so to speak.

This is the big one I wanted to bring up. So when you are seeing more parties for ERP stuff or things that the players are creating vs content the devs are creating, that says one of two things. There is a problem that lies with in the player base of the game, or there is a problem in the content that is created for the game.

[xxmiamorecadenza]

Again, that's not going to happen but I think in the environment in which hard content could be done with a group of NPCs - the "statics" will actually thrive and it would be easier to clear raids/trials, considering that asocial, unhinged liabilities like myself won't be around.

And just as a reminder, back in A Realm Reborn and Heavensward party finder was World based - and it wasn't dead - on Odin and Gilgamesh at least.

Personally, I don't care about "loot", especially considering how freaking ugly and unimaginative the gear-sets from current and previous expansion are.
I simply want to experience and figure mechanics on my own without spoiling everything with a guide, annoying other players with my silent attitude and, excuse me, being handicapped by the handicapped.

Your argument is very... unconvincing. Outside of parsing, there wouldn't be much of a reason to compete with individuals in a PF environment for the sake of loot.

Why bother with potentially inconsistent real-life individuals when you can just play with NPC's and no longer have to deal with rolling for loot? Same goes for Extremes. Why fight seven other people for a rare mount drop?

And glam is highly irrelevant in a lot of cases. Most raiders are preoccupied by the plump ilvl - not the exterior models that are more often than naught glammed over immediately after they're won and equipped. The chest piece could be beyond hideous with a recycled model from a lvl 1 item that could be purchased for 5 gil at a vendor. But if the numbers are decent we'll still fight over it.

Ultimately you suggestion - if implemented - would kill a lot of the raiding scene and get rid of the social aspect of it. It's just a mediocre idea which is very unlikely to be added as an option.