Please Give Support For Solo Savage Raids

[Saidosha]

PF would be absolutely dead. And statics would struggle to recruit. Why compete against 7 other people for loot when you can just solo the instance and claim all your BiS in a week or two?

This is the fun part when people aggressively push the online multiplayer agenda. If this actually took place, doesn't it mean people weren't enjoying the multiplayer aspect to begin with?

I suspect what some fail to realize is that there are layers of player interaction that go beyond being in a party with people.
1) The AH thrives on others selling and buying things accrued by whatever means they prefer without the need of direct communication.
2) FATEs can be completed by multiple people without them actually grouping up.
3) A higher level passerby can save someone lower level from dying or just helping them finish a quest objective more swiftly.
4) Someone standing around in an appealing glam can start up a conversation, be it public or private.
5) Zone-wide communication may not be commonly used, but it's still there and can do its job. (Where's Krile hiding? Hunt train status? Where'd the compass go? etc.)

...and more I'm either likely overlooking off the top of my head or doesn't directly apply to XIV and its present systems. Not forcing people into groups for everything does not eliminate online interactions. It just makes them voluntary if you're in the mood, want a change of pace, or perhaps a bit more efficiency.


Otherwise, getting salty that (E)RP requests may outnumber content groupings at some random point in the day should be telling you that maaaaaaaybe there is an audience for that kind of stuff and it serves as a venue of player-generated content that further bolsters sub numbers and shop sales for glamours. Consider your disdain may very well run parallel with the "party all da thingz!" mentality for those who just don't want to or can't. This is a digital space. There is room for all willing. Gatekeeping really isn't required even if it does try to masquerade as devs having limited resources to play with so we'll just thumb our nose or whatever snark. Otherwise going down that path contributes to why MMOs have grown stagnant because there is this vehement obsession over what he genre is as opposed to what it could be.

[xxmiamorecadenza]

This is the fun part when people aggressively push the online multiplayer agenda. If this actually took place, doesn't it mean people weren't enjoying the multiplayer aspect to begin with?

Ya'll are legit confusing me. Like legit. Both you and CyanTea's logic make zero sense to me. Stripping an MMO of its multi-player aspects doesn't compute with me at all. Nor will it ever. MMO's should maintain MMO elements.

Sorry if you want less MMO in your MMO.

[CyanTea]

Stripping an MMO of its multi-player aspects doesn't compute with me at all. Nor will it ever. MMO's should maintain MMO elements.

Likewise. I can't quite understand how exactly adding an option to do somewhat niche content with a group of bots would outright "strip an MMO of its multiplayer aspects". As I said, I think if someone would rather play with real people - they would.
Although, when I think about it - adding NPCs to current Savage tiers would indeed be kind of a bad idea - until the echo is introduced, that is.
But there's definitely needs to be more options to actually experience the old content, so to speak.


Talking about "dead" Party Finder: how often do you see, something like synced Alexander (Savage) listings? Barely, I wager. Heck, as I said even earlier - there are almost no (practice/clear) groups for the current trials, since it's already become obsolete content.

[IdowhatIwant]

Likewise. I can't quite understand how exactly adding an option to do somewhat niche content with a group of bots would outright "strip an MMO of its multiplayer aspects". As I said, I think if someone would rather play with real people - they would.
Although, when I think about it - adding NPCs to current Savage tiers would indeed be kind of a bad idea - until the echo is introduced, that is.
But there's definitely needs to be more options to actually experience the old content, so to speak.


Talking about "dead" Party Finder: how often do you see, something like synced Alexander (Savage) listings? Barely, I wager. Heck, as I said even earlier - there are almost no (practice/clear) groups for the current trials, since it's already become obsolete content.

This is because most people are just going to solo the content or will do this with one or two friends. As much as people want to say content stays relevant in this game due to the min ilvl setting, that is absolutely not true. If you joined this game cause you heard this on youtube / twitch than you fell for it. The player base in reality decides what is relevant and what is not.

I still hold my stance, if you wanting everything in this game to be a single player experience, you are playing the wrong genre of game. That being said this game is already mostly single player so go enjoy that content cause it was designed for you.

[CyanTea]

I understand that my English still needs a lot of work, but I swear, sometimes it feels like I'm spouting incomprehensible nonsense. I apologize if that's the case.

This is because most people are just going to solo the content or will do this with one or two friends. As much as people want to say content stays relevant in this game due to the min ilvl setting, that is absolutely not true.

Perhaps I misunderstood you, but I was never of opinion that the content in this game stays indefinitely relevant, quite the opposite in fact. I even said this in my previews post. And I joined this game first and foremost because I enjoy this franchise.
But at least you acknowledge the problem that needs to be fixed. And hence I think adding bots would be a good way to alleviate it (that is if developers had enough resources to do this). And without interfering with the player base (content cycle, to be honest) that decides what is relevant and what is not.

And, also, regarding the old content: how exactly would it be different from the current state of just brainlessly steamrolling everything unsync'ed - alone or with a couple of "friends"/randoms if there's a mechanic that requires more than 1 person?

Once again I fail to see how making the only way to test the player's knowledge of the game's combat system more accessible for the solo players will cause "everything in this game to be a single-player experience". I think you're grossly exaggerating.

you are playing the wrong genre of game

MASSIVELY multiplayer game and it caters only to a certain type of individual? Sheesh! Hehehe.
I most definitely won't disagree, though. People like me are generally not welcome anywhere. But as I said, there's currently nothing similar to this game on the market.

It's not that it would remove MMO aspects so much as that it would require a significant amount of man hours to create such a system- a system that very few people would actually use when there are already other options available (doing it as intended, low-manning, even soloing eventually). These man hours would be taken away from what could go into other content such as a deep dungeon which would have a much broader audience.

Yes. I've already stated that probability of adding "smart" bots in hard content is nigh impossible. But am I allowed to dream, eh? I want to dream. Still, I'm looking forward to a new Deep Dungeon and I hope "penny pinchers" at SE will someday decide to allocate more money to this game rather than its advertisement.

[IdowhatIwant]

Perhaps I misunderstood you, but I was never of opinion that the content in this game stays indefinitely relevant, quite the opposite in fact. I even said this in my previews post. And I joined this game first and foremost because I enjoy this franchise.
But at least you acknowledge the problem that needs to be fixed. And hence I think adding bots would be a good way to alleviate it (that is if developers had enough resources to do this). And without interfering with the player base (content cycle, to be honest) that decides what is relevant and what is not.

If the player count doubling with in a few months period did not make this content become some what relevant for bit, bots won't make it relevant either.

[Packetdancer]

Yes. I've already stated that probability of adding "smart" bots in hard content is nigh impossible. But am I allowed to dream, eh? I want to dream. Still, I'm looking forward to a new Deep Dungeon and I hope "penny pinchers" at SE will someday decide to allocate more money to this game rather than its advertisement.

Sure, you're allowed to dream! Lord knows there's features I'd love to see in various games that I know will never happen for practical reasons. I think it's just that the thread in general is presenting "the Trust system exists so it's easy to add bots to everything *facepalm*" arguments in a number of places, and so folks are approaching the discussion with intent to explain why it is not, in fact, so simple to implement.

And even if it were technically feasible, it still means devoting development resources there rather than somewhere else. And if it came down to something like "do you want a way to run two of the twelve existing Alexander savage raids with an NPC trust, or do you want an entirely new Deep Dungeon covering levels 81-90" where I had to pick one or the other, I would absolutely vote in favor of a new Deep Dungeon instead.

(Look, I like the Deep Dungeon content. Quite a lot.)

[kaynide]

Likewise. I can't quite understand how exactly adding an option to do somewhat niche content with a group of bots would outright "strip an MMO of its multiplayer aspects".

It's not that it would remove MMO aspects so much as that it would require a significant amount of man hours to create such a system- a system that very few people would actually use when there are already other options available (doing it as intended, low-manning, even soloing eventually). These man hours would be taken away from what could go into other content such as a deep dungeon which would have a much broader audience.

[Tlamila]

Talking about "dead" Party Finder: how often do you see, something like synced Alexander (Savage) listings? Barely, I wager. Heck, as I said even earlier - there are almost no (practice/clear) groups for the current trials, since it's already become obsolete content.

You don't see listings, but it doesn't mean that if you make a PF yourself people won't join.
There are so many things people actually want to run but are too lazy to make a PF for it themselves.

If you look at the most frequent postings it's indeed always the latest content, as you said even the last EXes don't pop much there anymore, and savage postings are mostly for p4 or reclears already.
But make a pf for anything and you'll get a full group pretty fast.
So someone else not posting stuff on PF is not really an indiction of nobody wanting to do it. The number of people who actively post compared to those who just look for postings is really small. If you want to do a duty, you'll find people to do it with.

And throwing even savage to the solo queue category would be super depressing. This game has way too many solo aspects already for an MMO.