What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Pyro2hell3]

The Final Days did not wipe out the Ancients. It decimated them, certainly, though there were enough survivors to work at preventing Etheirys from being destroyed by summoning Zodiark to serve as a barrier against the return of the Final Days and also restore life to the planet.

It was Venat who wiped out the Ancients through the horrific act of genocide that was the Sundering.

This does raise a very important question. What exactly happened when Venat sundered the world? Did all the current inhabitants just pop out of existence or something? Did it cause 14 umbral calamities at once or was it a normal day?

[Denji]

i'm fine with how zodiark being a weakling. he was not only sundered but he was also being controlled by fandaniel, aka a dude who WANTED TO DIE. it'd make sense if he just couldn't use zodiark's full power simply because of this desire, even if it were subconsciously influencing him

my issue is how garlemald was great until your body is hijacked. whatever you have to say about "in from the cold" aside, it just had no point; no relevance. in fact the NPCs are just like "lmao that was wack o well" and continue on as if nothing happened and it's never mentioned again.

imo the only reason shadowbringers felt like it had a more cohesive storyline is because even in the areas that were 90% filler (fairies...) you still had one primary goal, aka "defeat the lightwardens". so even if the area sucked and had no relevance to the overall story you at least had a motivation to return darkness/night to the area.

[TaleraRistain]

This does raise a very important question. What exactly happened when Venat sundered the world? Did all the current inhabitants just pop out of existence or something? Did it cause 14 umbral calamities at once or was it a normal day?

If I remember, Emet explained that outside Amaurot in ShB. When a soul is sundered, a copy (a reflection) of the being is created but it doesn't have the same memories. I'd have to look at that cutscene again, but I never got the impression it was wiping anything out of existence.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

The Final Days did not wipe out the Ancients. It decimated them, certainly, though there were enough survivors to work at preventing Etheirys from being destroyed by summoning Zodiark to serve as a barrier against the return of the Final Days and also restore life to the planet.

It was Venat who wiped out the Ancients through the horrific act of genocide that was the Sundering.

So what was it when they sacrificed half the remaining population to summon zodiark?

Mass murder?

And she didn't commit genocide, the souls were simply split. Proof of that aplenty in game.

If you want to say venat was wrong, that's fine. She wasn't a hero. But neither were the convocation for sacrificing their own population. They could have left it after that, but chose more sacrifice.

[MagiusNecros]

So what was it when they sacrificed half the population to summon zodiark?

Mass murder?

And she didn't commit genocide, the souls were simply split. Proof of that aplenty in game.

She sundered every soul on Etheirys and split the planet into Hydaelyn and 12 other reflections as well as creating imperfect races so they are never this single perfect race again and probably turned all sundered Ancients into Garleans with no aptitude for magic. And condemned all life to perpetually suffer in a losing battle to attain perfection under the pretense to avert the final days or perfect civilizations desiring death and ruin.

Do your mental gymnastics if you want but it is still Genocide on a massive scale. Of which both Emet/Convocation and Emet are equally guilty of.

The diffference being Emet/Convo offered a choice and Venat pulled a "Mother knows best" and decides for everyone herself without any say in the matter.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

She sundered every soul on Etheirys and split the planet into Hydaelyn and 12 other reflections as well as creating imperfect races so they are never this single perfect race again and probably turned all sundered Ancients into Garleans with no aptitude for magic. And condemned all life to perpetually suffer in a losing battle to attain perfection under the pretense to avert the final days or perfect civilizations desiring death and ruin.

Do your mental gymnastics if you want but it is still Genocide on a massive scale. Of which both Emet/Convocation and Emet are equally guilty of.

The diffference being Emet/Convo offered a choice and Venat pulled a "Mother knows best" and decides for everyone herself without any say in the matter.

Perfect races don't exist. Can see meteions findings for that answer.

[KizuyaKatogami]

So what was it when they sacrificed half the remaining population to summon zodiark?

Mass murder?

And she didn't commit genocide, the souls were simply split. Proof of that aplenty in game.

If you want to say venat was wrong, that's fine. She wasn't a hero. But neither were the convocation for sacrificing their own population. They could have left it after that, but chose more sacrifice.

Correct me if i’m wrong, but for the two set of sacrifices the people were volunteers. Don’t believe there was any implication it was done without their consent. Only one that’s arguable for is the 3rd sacrifice but we don’t know what that life was. Venat on the other hand, got no one’s consent for the sundering, and did it all behind their back. At least the convocation let people volunteer and didn’t force them it seems

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Correct me if i’m wrong, but for the two set of sacrifices the people were volunteers. Don’t believe there was any implication it was done without their consent. Only one that’s arguable for is the 3rd sacrifice but we don’t know what that life was. Venat on the other hand, got no one’s consent for the sundering, and did it all behind their back. At least the convocation let people volunteer and didn’t force them it seems

I believe only the people in Amaurot gave consent. Not the rest of the planet.

[AziraSyuren]

snip

"From that temptation, I sunder us." is the part in context.

That was the quote. It was just a linguistic choice on the writers' end, it wasn't the moment of sundering, and I don't think that's where she decided to sunder the world either.

I’ve played every final fantasy game barring 11. If we really want to go down the “14 is like the other ff’s” then shall i bring up how the past ff games have actually had consequences for the protagonists and killed off their characters? .

I can't actually remember that many examples of characters dying outside of antagonists that wasn't undone later on. For that you have... 2, 5 (best scene in the series, don't @ me), 7, arguably 15? It was utter bullshit in that last case though, as Noctis deserved better, and ambiguously canon supplements like the novel muddy the water on just what happened or what should've happened. I never played 8 or 13 so I don't have the faintest idea what happens there (i know lightning returns undoes it all though), and fuck 10-2 for undoing one of the most amazing parts of 10's ending. No main character dies in any other mainline FF game, and there are rarely ever lasting consequences either.

People who can be inferred to die offscreen shortly after the game ends or based on your own choices (6 and 9) don't count.

Either way, it's hardly a recurring trend in the series to kill off characters or give them lasting consequences.

[Lauront]

I believe only the people in Amaurot gave consent. Not the rest of the planet.

From her own mouth:



Emet:

Let us imagine that the laws of reality are again undone, and the world faces true annihilation. Do you honestly believe that half your number would sacrifice themselves to save the other?


From the above, it is clear it is half of mankind as a whole offering itself up in sacrifice to salvage their star and people.

And she didn't commit genocide, the souls were simply split. Proof of that aplenty in game.

Sure.




This isn't some mere little "split" - their lifespans were reduced from being virtually immortal to much shorter lifecycles, they lost their ability to use creation magicks and the Echo is at a fraction of what it was when they were unsundered - amongst other things. This is effectively the creation of a different species at the expense of the one being sundered. It is their eradication as a people.