What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Rulakir]

More seriously tho, I feel like a lot of the responses I've dealt with are answered by things I've already said and I just keep paraphrasing it. I feel this will get nowhere.

This is why I quit doing it in the lore forums. Eventually you start to notice it's a pattern where inevitably the person you're replying to starts from the beginning of their argument (that you already addressed) and the cycle repeats. Hermes, in particular, seems to be the one where this happens most because it always circles back to whether or not he was necessary. I suspect it's such a sticking point because if he wasn't necessary (and there's certainly sufficient evidence that was the case) then Venat's already flimsy reasoning further falls apart. Regardless, the writers were never going to be able to justify the sundering being both intentional and with knowledge of the future.

I haven't seen anyone on either side change their mind about the characters or the story, so ultimately it seems pointless as well.

[Theodric]

I just think it’s hilarious how every suggestion made about how different elements of the story could’ve been handled gets shot down along with an explanation of game lore which basically boils down to “it couldn’t have happened that way because the devs didn’t write it that way” even if it’s a completely reasonable suggestion. I mean how dare anyone suggest that they didn’t care for an expansion story when the devs worked so hard on it and don’t forget yoshi p saved this game and ffxiv devs actually care about their player base unlike *other* mmos and and covid happened remember????

I just know that if the plot had been completely different people would still be defending it and if you don’t like it you didn’t understand the theme of the story, lack empathy, are possibly a psychopath because you liked a villain, need to go back to wow even though you never played it, are a troll, or never played a jrpg before lmao. It couldn’t possibly be just your opinion cause yoshi p is the game’s savior and he cried on a live letter so everything will get defended no matter what.

It's been a dire problem within this community for years, unfortunately. Not just here, either, but over on Reddit and Twitter as well.

I typically make ample use of the block function when it happens but it does grow exhausting. Worse yet, I know a lot of people who have admitted that they just don't bother engaging with any discussions related to the game altogether in order to avoid the weird personal attacks. Which is understandable, though likely leads to the development team getting a very skewed version of player feedback.

[aveyond-dreams]

All I know is that for 7.0 I'm not looking for some hugely deep thematic conflict about facing the amalgamation of ultimate despair. Just let me hit things with a sword, and give me some party members that don't make me roll my eyes whenever they come on screen and actually react to the world around them besides just providing lore explanations.

The 2 hours I spent in Elpis with the trio > the 8 years I spent being Thancred, Y'shtola, and the twins' henchman.

[Seiori]

I have mixed feelings about Endwalker so far. I haven't read OP's post cus i didn't want to be spoiled but...so far im giving it a 6/10
The garlean segment was very interesting, wasn't expecting them to include a suicide scene in this game. I really liked seeing this Jullus character.. Kinda upset we have the castle in the background of the map and can't go in.
Right after slaying zodiark, the world is supposed to be ending due to an aether disruption and we are playing dressup with the AI bunnies on the moon. Hmmmmmmmmmm..........

If I had to guess as to why those odd scenes with the bunnies and the scion fanfare moments during the dire events, think about the character Puck from Berserk, he is used mostly tool to deescalate darker tones of the story from constantly going thus breaking the tension to reset the mood. That is what they were trying to do lol

[Theodric]

I'm fairly easy to please. All I really want is for my character to be an adventurer again and for the story to avoid having literally every other quest involve the terms 'hope', 'a brighter tomorrow' and 'oppression'. Interacting with more characters who have a distinct personality and don't exist to constantly agree with each other on pretty much every front would be neat, too.

Whenever I look back at the cast of pretty much any other JRPG, the main cast are a lot more distinct. Many previous Final Fantasy games had playable characters who teamed up for the sake of a mutual cause but didn't necessarily get on well for much of the game. Steiner and Zidane in FFIX as well as Basch and Vaan in FFXII spring to mind. To say nothing of scenarios where relations between characters started off positive only to sour later on in the game as was the case with Gladio and Noctis from FFXV.

[aveyond-dreams]

I'm fairly easy to please. All I really want is for my character to be an adventurer again and for the story to avoid having literally every other quest involve the terms 'hope', 'a brighter tomorrow' and 'oppression'. Interacting with more characters who have a distinct personality and don't exist to constantly agree with each other on pretty much every front would be neat, too.

Whenever I look back at the cast of pretty much any other JRPG, the main cast are a lot more distinct. Many previous Final Fantasy games had playable characters who teamed up for the sake of a mutual cause but didn't necessarily get on well for much of the game. Steiner and Zidane in FFIX as well as Basch and Vaan in FFXII spring to mind. To say nothing of scenarios where relations between characters started off positive only to sour later on in the game as was the case with Gladio and Noctis from FFXV.

I agree with the above statement, compared to previous parties in FF games the one we were stuck with for the past 8 years in FFXIV is a considerable downgrade. In the concept for 7.0 I made in another thread, I kept only vestiges as the scions around to have people to fill out 8-man trial parties for the msq and because I wanted to keep Estinien. Otherwise I would not have included any mention of G'raha or the twins.

Given the popularity surrounding the three main ancients-none of which are perfect/can be liked for different reasons-I feel it would be a terrible waste to not capitalize on that by introducing if not spiritual successors that call back to them, at least characters that are as interactive as they were. A snarky mage who bickers with the muscle of the party. A hopelessly weak bard who has to be rescued due to him being prone to getting into troublesome situations. A healer scarred by her previous traumas who like us wants to just go for an adventure.

As for a villain, I'd much rather go after an evil king/emperor and end up putting the good guys on the throne in their place as opposed to black robed mages "pondering the meaning of life." Someone along the lines of Queen Brahne or Emperor Mateus, for example. They want power, they don't care from where, and they're going to use it against whoever is unlucky enough to stand in their way. In the case of my concept, King Matthias is a man who puts on the face of Count Fortemps one second and the next is revealed to be an abusive tyrant whose daughters are both traumatized by his behavior towards them while his son's experiences in the war have slowly damaged his mind to the point where he butchers a baby dragon without remorse.

Compliment that with an FFIX or Dragon Age like cast, and who knows maybe FFXIV players will start liking their own party members just as much as we've grown attached to Emet-Selch and other villains, because goodness knows there's not much to go off of in making a case for Thancred or Y'shtola anymore (who I've sent off on their own adventure to give us all a break from their presence). If those two are in the main party again in 7.0 and they fail to send us into a high fantasy enviroment in favor of FFXIV: African Safari/Austrailian Adventures/New World Indiana Jones then forgive me if I say that there is no way you could sell that to the core Final Fantasy playerbase. While making use of Meracydia and the New World to establish a Mist Continent-like scenario or returning former Garlean territories to monarchies, duchies, etc, would be the ideal solution, if there is no more space left on the source then by all means beam me to another shard-and leave the scions behind.

[Lauront]

It'd be a nice change in pace. I wouldn't mind a potential return to an ancient AU at some point, as I enjoy the ancients, but in terms of a new plot and story direction all the above does sound very intriguing.

[Rulakir]

Fanfest Q&A with Yoshida and battle designer Nakagawa.

Q. What is the most important thing to think about in making FF14’s world and story?

Yoshida: As the director, astonishment and empathy are the most important things to me. The scenario is made so there are elements where it’s good to think about our own society. We try not to make perfect characters, and we try to accept different ways of thinking.

Not sure what to think of this since I would say certain elements of EW are contrary to it.

Also:

Q. How is it decided which NPCs to make into minions? Are there plans to make minions of villainous characters?

Yoshida: Monster-style minions are left to the device of the responsible team, as for NPC minions, they are all checked in order to avoid spoilers. NPC minions are only made when their character has finished their role, so please think that if a character doesn’t have a minion yet they still have a role to play.

Still no Emet, Hythlodaeus, or Zenos minions, so guess they're all returning then! (Mildly joking here, I know it's hard to tell in text, but there's a lot of people speculating who will be coming back now based on them not having a minion yet.)

[Rulakir]

I was all for Zenos joining the WoL at the end of EW and I didn't even like him before then. :P Any sort of different dynamic than everyone liking each other, agreeing on everything, etc. Even Fordola could've been interesting. I'm blanking on any series I've enjoyed where everyone started off as friends and consistently get along all the time.

Yoshi-P has already said that the next conflict will be over values, which doesn't inspire much confidence in me after EW.