What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Theodric]

Simply based on the player character being an adventurer at heart I would have expected a near insatiable desire to learn as much as possible about the Ancient world once it was revealed as well as anger towards Hydaelyn for trying to obscure it.

It wears thin when the Garleans are criticised endlessly for eroding away elements of the cultures of the nations that they conquer but it's all conveniently brushed under the rug when Venat not only inflicts genocide upon her own people but tried to deflect blame onto Zodiark when we thankfully know he did nothing wrong.

It's why I always have a big grin on my face whenever someone brings up the 'themes' of the game. They're not consistent and the game has long since been plagued by a tendency to view certain acts as 'utterly unforgivable' when the antagonists partake of them only to make excuses when the supposed 'good guys' do the very same thing.

[Lauront]

The closest I can find is this. I think if you want to narrow the focus, asking a question won't hurt. The question identified is quite detailed so I'm not sure how likely it is to be picked up, especially at a non-lore focused Q&A, but if nothing else Ishikawa has mentioned combing over these in the past to see what lingering questions there are, so there's that. I do think it will eventually have to be addressed via future lore given mention of the other shards as potential places to go, since the dimensional barriers are a thing, and were frayed for the Void, which is why Voidsent can pass over in some cases even without a portal.

[Sicno]

Let's skip all of your speculation missing the point about Azem's gender and let's just say:

...Did you not recognize Themis's very distinctive voice?

[KizuyaKatogami]

Let's skip all of your speculation missing the point about Azem's gender and let's just say:

...Did you not recognize Themis's very distinctive voice?

I suppose they might be arguing that Themis may have been a seat of Azem before taking the seat of Elidibus but…there’s absolutely nothing that supports this either so i’m a bit at a loss of what they mean. I figured it’s pretty clear cut the Azem in Elpis is us.

Ok. So lets change it to : Its clear that Azem is male at the time Pandaemonium occurs which would indicate that Pandaemonium occurs during the time after Venat was in the position of Azem and after the WoL goes to Elpis.

Intro to Venat and mention of Azem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC6ftXitvTM female change
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrnYFuHXo38 male change

But on both those situations, the intro to Venat and Themis, the reference to gender as Azem is in relation to the Player Character. So which is it? This is what I meant when I said misdirection. You can't have two presentations of story with switching gender reference to Azem as it distorts the information being given based on the gender of the PC.
After Elpis consideration
If the PC is male, Azem is male, Themis can potentially be Azem since he fulfills the qualifier of being Male and is post Venat as Azem. And Pandaemonium takes place after Elpis.
If the PC is female, Azem is female, and Themis can't potentially be Azem since he doesn't fulfill the qualifier of being female and is post Venat as Azem. And Pandaemonium takes place after Elpis.

So which is it? How do we bring those 2 points into alignment where we don't have a strong contradiction: Pandaemonium takes place before Elpis, occurs during the time Venat is Azem, or it takes place after Elpis.
Before Elpis consideration
If the PC is male, Azem is male, and Themis can't potentially be Azem since he fulfills the qualifier of being Male and is pre/during Venat as Azem. And Pandaemonium takes place before Elpis, or during Venat as Azem.
If the PC is female, Azem is female, and Themis can't potentially be Azem since she doesn't fulfill the qualifier of being female and is pre/during Venat as Azem. And Pandaemonium takes place before Elpis, or during Venat as Azem. (see what I did with my post ;p)

Which is also kinda what I mean about headcanoning. The only way to go Themis is Elidibus is from a perspective that doesn't exist based on the story or narrative provided so far. As the only PC that is affected to cause that perception is females. So yes, Kizuya I'm more then well aware that I am "headcanoning", that would be why I'm trying to discuss it. Well, should say was. enjoy your chamber.

You're free to headcanon whatever you wish, but its appreciated to not disclaim those who are giving you factual evidence that denounces your headcanon. Themis quite literally has Elidibus' VA, so please explain to me how he could not be Elidibus, and this is completely disregarding all of the other evidence we have that he most certainly isnt or was ever an Azem.

[dapperfaffer]

I'm not arguing anything. Thats why I used words like technically, and potentially, and basically wrote a conspiracy theory. Sicno was absolutley right. Its literal speculation under the premise of when Pandaemonium occurs. I know, how will I ever chase the updootz if I don't just gatekeep agree. I'll find a way to manage.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I'm not arguing anything. Thats why I used words like technically, and potentially, and basically wrote a conspiracy theory. Sinco was absolutley right. Its literal speculation under the premise of when Pandaemonium occurs. I know, how will I ever chase the updootz if I don't just gatekeep agree. I'll find a way to manage.

You stated the only way to go Themis is Elidibus is from some perspective that doesnt exist even though they literally have the same voice. No one even mentioned upvotes so im not quite sure why you're bringing it up/even care, they mean nothing. My overall point was just informing you the Azem in Elpis is us, the unsundered WoL. While Themis is Elidibus presumably before he actually took the seat of Elidibus.

[dapperfaffer]

Let's skip all of your speculation missing the point about Azem's gender and let's just say:

...Did you not recognize Themis's very distinctive voice?

Yes it sounds like Elidibus. My entire premise is speculation. If you skip it, then don't bother responding to it. That sounds much harsher then what its meant to.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Yes it sounds like Elidibus. My entire premise is speculation. If you skip it, then don't bother responding to it.

I think the reason people are a bit confused here is speculation is typically backed by some form of textual evidence. There isnt really any evidence whatsoever pointing to Themis being Azem or him not being Elidibus.

[TaleraRistain]

I think the reason people are a bit confused here is speculation is typically backed by some form of textual evidence. There isnt really any evidence whatsoever pointing to Themis being Azem or him not being Elidibus.

Not only that, when you first meet Themis, he thinks you are his friend. And when this has happened with the Ancients like Hyth, they are recognizing the soul of our Azem. Which heavily implies our Azem is his friend. Considering the seats were offered to those who best fit them, if we're already in the picture in the same time period, it doesn't seem logical that Themis would be offered the seat, then step down, then possibly take up as Elidibus, and then sometime in there we ascend to the seat of Azem since the traits of the seat fit us perfectly. I can't see how Themis would be a better fit than we are.

I know you know all that, Kizuya, just trying to explain to our friend how gender is irrelevant because our Azem is already around.

[Sicno]

Yes it sounds like Elidibus. My entire premise is speculation. If you skip it, then don't bother responding to it. That sounds much harsher then what its meant to.

I did it because you're trying too hard to prove the Earth is flat when there's sooooooo many things that point at us being Azem and that Themis is Elidibus.