When are we supposed to stop fighting?

[Absimiliard]

How did people manage to subsume yet another thread into the global Venat defense initiative?

Root cause of all the suffering notwithstanding, the reality of the situation is that everyone must fight every second of their lives. Not all fights are physical, you see. Even those whose lives are seemingly normal -- your crafters, peddlers, doctors and the like -- too have their own battles they must face on the daily. As for the WoL? Their fighting, both literal and metaphorical, will never end. They'll very likely fight until something finally has their number, whenever that is.

[KariTheFox]

Which, I again point out, these people were traumatized. It is utterly natural during the time a person is within that traumatized state to want to go back to before the trauma occurred. It doesn't prove anything but that they were human, acting as all human beings do. It is not until much later, when the pain of the trauma has begun to pass and healing has begun that we realize the trauma has made us stronger. It would quite likely have been the same for them, had Venat given them that time.

How many more lives would have been sacrificed to Zodiark while Venat gives the ancients time to process thier trauma?

[Theodric]

How many more lives would have been sacrificed to Zodiark while Venat gives the ancients time to process thier trauma?

Given that the plan was simply to sacrifice a portion of the 'new lives' to Zodiark and not all lives indefinitely? Such would have involved far less death and suffering compared to Venat's decision to destroy everybody through the Sundering without their consent.

Of course, had she simply had a conversation explaining the circumstances behind the Final Days by sharing the information that she was aware of then a different solution could have potentially been found...especially with a Sundered Zodiark serving as a barrier against the return of the Final Days for at least twelve thousand years. One can only imagine how much longer an Unsundered Zodiark would have been able to keep the threat at bay in order to buy time for the Ancients to find a permanent solution.

[EaraGrace]

No, the word journey becomes meaningless, because you take from it, its purpose.

When Bilbo yelled out “I’m going on an adventure” do you think he was making the term meaningless?

No That's a weird way to say formed a rebellion and lead a coup by creating a second god, which then destroyed their world and way of life, but whatever helps you remove all moral complexity from your crystal mommy.

God can we have one conversation on Venat without it turning into a group of people turning into snobs. Pull it back mister good faith. And yes, all those things were the right call. Was it good, was it kind, was it fun? No. Was it the only way? Yes.

No Ishgard: Two of four aristocratic houses and the papacy at first, until we killed Nidhogg. Then the same aristocratic houses, one branch of the military, and the commoners with Hilda to dismantle the papacy. We fought beside largely the ruling class, and did not actually elevate commoners to equality or rulership posititions.

The leaders of the Brume disagree. Ask Hilda if she wasn’t happy we came or if she wouldn’t fight with us again. Ask the House of Commons. Ask the Lords that repeatedly sought our deaths.

No Ala Mhigo: The Ala Mhigan resistance movement comprised of any Ala Mhigans willing to fight. Which was a leadership movement going against Garlean rule. While comprised of anyone, it's what constituted formal rule for our purposes, and would later give leadership based on bloodline and prior importance ala Lyse and Raubahn. It is the best example you can provide against my PoV though. And my favorite nation, as such.

I’m glad we agree.

No Doma: Lord Hien and the royalist freedom fighters awaiting his return. Yes, we roused bodies to serve him, but we served literal royalty there too, not first but foremost once he was found.

A royalty supported by the common people. Doma answered Hiens call.

No Norvrandt: I'll answer your question after I ask some. Who made the Crystarium? Who used strength of spell to change fate? What could any of the common people done for themselves without that great man?

The common people fought and fought and fought. It was the common soldiers that gave Ardbert hope and helped us drive back the sin eaters from Lakeland. It was a the common people of the 8th Umbral Era who gave Graha the chance to make a change. It was Lyna and the people of the Crystarium, Nuzz and the people of Eulmore, the miners and engineers in Twine, the Nights Blessed and the Viis, the fae and the dwarves who time and time again fought alongside us. Without them the First would’ve fallen.

No Vauthry eventually robbed people of their free will through meol distribution implanting bits of Sin Eater in them, but until that point in the story, the common folk themselves flocked to Eulmore for want of a strong ruler with a safe place to live. Much as those who flocked to the Crystarium did.

The people of Eulmore and Kholusia suffered for it. Now both peoples lead their own fates and flourish.

No We're not looking at it the same way. That's been abundantly clear for weeks. It is the same game. The difference between us is that I am willing to extend my perception to its fullest. You are not.

How easy it must be to think that our difference of opinion is rooted in my “limited perception.” We are both seeing the same things Vyrerus, accept that.

No Funny, though, you know. Waiting for a hero is exactly what the savior goddess did. For 12,000 years.

Funny. That doesn’t sound like something a “Great Woman” would do.

No There's a difference in fully informing people so they can make an actual choice, and them still making the wrong one than giving them vague platitudes in a time of crisis, and then literally conquering them through strength of arms to take their will from them. Because they literally couldn't give you the answer you wanted with the knowledge they had in their moment of weakness.

A moment of weakness made eternal. Zodiark would prevent any and all from choosing the hard way, and in so doing doom life.

[EaraGrace]

How did people manage to subsume yet another thread into the global Venat defense initiative?

Root cause of all the suffering notwithstanding, the reality of the situation is that everyone must fight every second of their lives. Not all fights are physical, you see. Even those whose lives are seemingly normal -- your crafters, peddlers, doctors and the like -- too have their own battles they must face on the daily. As for the WoL? Their fighting, both literal and metaphorical, will never end. They'll very likely fight until something finally has their number, whenever that is.

Ah yes, it’s the Venat defenders that turned this thread into what it is and not the ones comparing her to satan.

[Theodric]

Ah yes, it’s the Venat defenders that turned this thread into what it is and not the ones comparing her to satan.

Venat isn't real. She's a fictional character. Someone not liking her or approving of her actions does not equal that person being wrong and they're free to use whatever terms they so please to describe a character who, at the end of the day, deliberately chose to wipe out her own people and lead them astray by holding back key information.

It's been suggested many times that it's a subject to agree to disagree on, at any rate.

[EaraGrace]

Venat isn't real. She's a fictional character. Someone not liking her or approving of her actions does not equal that person being wrong and they're free to use whatever terms they so please to describe a character who, at the end of the day, deliberately chose to wipe out her own people and lead them astray by holding back key information.

It's been suggested many times that it's a subject to agree to disagree on, at any rate.

Yes, and this is a forum where people argue their point. The question is whether this topic needed to be discussed here. It didn’t. Don’t blame those arguing against “Venat is satan” for starting the argument, they didn’t shift things to that topic.

[KariTheFox]

Oh so we're doing this again. Here's how the next dozen pages go "Why did/didn't Venat do X, she's terrible." a bunch of posts explaining why Venat didn't do X are made and susequently ignored or dismissed. And then the topic shifts to something else related to how awful Venat is. This is what every thread here becomes now, regardless of the original subject.

[RyuDragnier]

Oh so we're doing this again. Here's how the next dozen pages go "Why did/didn't Venat do X, she's terrible." a bunch of posts explaining why Venat didn't do X are made and susequently ignored or dismissed. And then the topic shifts to something else related to how awful Venat is. This is what every thread here becomes now, regardless of the original subject.

Yep. It's reaching the point where I kind of wish the mods would throw out 72 hour bans to the people who keep starting this. Because it's getting INCREDIBLY annoying now, and it seems to be the same people doing it.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Yep. It's reaching the point where I kind of wish the mods would throw out 72 hour bans to the people who keep starting this. Because it's getting INCREDIBLY annoying now, and it seems to be the same people doing it.

To be fair it didn’t happen when there were people going around all the threads in shb calling emet bad and ascian supporters genocide enthusiasts. Don’t see why it’d apply here.It's not like it isnt entirely irrelevant here though. She was the one preaching about suffering and fighting etc.Seems like people are fine when it devolves into praising Venat or what have you but the moment someone makes a post questioning her THEN its a problem.