Summoner feels really, really dumbed down now

[BaconBits]

Trick question, there are no orbs, only Teedus.

[HyperSMB]

I guess the better question to ask in this thread, is what do you guys want?

I mean, they are clearly going to stick with the gems -> Demi summon setup, so beyond undoing that, what do people want them to do?

I personally am not sure what I want beyond:

* Decouple Searing Light and Aegis from Carbuncle (Actually, deleting Carby is fine period)
* Readjustment to the functions of the various gem abilities for more varied gameplay
* More oGCD's to weave throughout the various phases

I would also advocate for the complete and total removal of Aetherflow. I know it is tied to ACN and therefore will never happen, but having that skill forced on SMN limits what they are doing with oGCD's.

What I do NOT want:

* DoT's (This is a me thing, tracking DoT's suck and are anti-fun imho)
* The old system of Trances

[zcrash970]

As long as I see Ramuh/Leviathan/Shiva and hopefully Alexander or the Warring Triad in the future, I'm good whether they come as unique abilities or glamours. Some improved visuals for lower level abilities would also be nice. I'm not very hard to please in this regard.

The current job is definitely something I can recommend to people without reservation now that it has a consistent levelling experience, whereas for the previous job it was only fair to warn others about how much of a mess it becomes by the time one gets to level 80.

Hoping for a lot there

[tearagion]

I guess the better question to ask in this thread, is what do you guys want?

To have resources and cooldowns to actually manage instead of a job designed to press everything except 2 festers off cooldown. To have a caster that has to cast more than 3 times a minute. To have any optimization choice at all other than drift a demi/searing sometimes but usually not, or cut an obviously worse summon after down time. To have an actually finished job replace the one I loved since I started playing FFXIV.

[Dyvid]

I guess the better question to ask in this thread, is what do you guys want?

I mean, they are clearly going to stick with the gems -> Demi summon setup, so beyond undoing that, what do people want them to do?

I personally am not sure what I want beyond:

* Decouple Searing Light and Aegis from Carbuncle (Actually, deleting Carby is fine period)
* Readjustment to the functions of the various gem abilities for more varied gameplay
* More oGCD's to weave throughout the various phases

I would also advocate for the complete and total removal of Aetherflow. I know it is tied to ACN and therefore will never happen, but having that skill forced on SMN limits what they are doing with oGCD's.

What I do NOT want:

* DoT's (This is a me thing, tracking DoT's suck and are anti-fun imho)
* The old system of Trances

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...37#post5803337

[Lilyth]

I LOVE new SMN. I don't know how to say this without irritating people, but the bloated, disgusting, disjointed mess of a disaster class that was old SMN is hopefully dead and buried.

Even if you consider the new version too easy, it is a better base product. It is visually more appealing, it fits the class fantasy far better and there is clear room for additions as we move forward.

To me, that means the rework was a success. Not perfect, but better.

Don't worry, sharing your feelings is perfectly fine. We do however have some different opinions like, for example, how personally I don't think old SMN was bloated at all. It required what, 3 hotbars to play? And even then I still had space for some fluffy macros and Physick. This "bloat" argument just comes across as being lazy to me and anything barely worth more than 2 hotbars seems to fall into this category nowadays.



Now to quote what you said, disgusting is my opinion of the current Smn as well. There are such things as an easy class, but just the fact that you can reduce this one to a 1 button macro spam, while yielding above average results, should be able to get my point across. What other class can you confidently say you're already doing your max level rotation at level 26? Maybe Disciples of the Land, but even them get a whole new mini-game in collectables when they reach lvl 50.

Disjointed, however, is not an opinion and is just wrong. Anyone who mastered the old class could explain to you how the previous skills worked and flowed nicely in a well put together rotation. It did require more than pressing whatever lighted up next, maybe that's why some people were not very fond of its "complexity".

All and all it will most likely stay dead and buried. But what a lot of people want is not to revive the old incarnation, it's just to get a little more out of the simplistic, lobotomized mess, that the current one is.

[HyperSMB]

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...37#post5803337

Thank you for the link to the relevant page.

[smol_cofe]

I guess the better question to ask in this thread, is what do you guys want?

I mean, they are clearly going to stick with the gems -> Demi summon setup, so beyond undoing that, what do people want them to do?

I personally am not sure what I want beyond:

* Decouple Searing Light and Aegis from Carbuncle (Actually, deleting Carby is fine period)
* Readjustment to the functions of the various gem abilities for more varied gameplay
* More oGCD's to weave throughout the various phases

I would also advocate for the complete and total removal of Aetherflow. I know it is tied to ACN and therefore will never happen, but having that skill forced on SMN limits what they are doing with oGCD's.

What I do NOT want:

* DoT's (This is a me thing, tracking DoT's suck and are anti-fun imho)
* The old system of Trances

add ramuh summon and tie it together with energy drain/fester/painflare so they dont feel so unrelated to new summoner

[Rolder50]

I guess the better question to ask in this thread, is what do you guys want?

I mean, they are clearly going to stick with the gems -> Demi summon setup, so beyond undoing that, what do people want them to do?

I personally am not sure what I want beyond:

* Decouple Searing Light and Aegis from Carbuncle (Actually, deleting Carby is fine period)
* Readjustment to the functions of the various gem abilities for more varied gameplay
* More oGCD's to weave throughout the various phases

I would also advocate for the complete and total removal of Aetherflow. I know it is tied to ACN and therefore will never happen, but having that skill forced on SMN limits what they are doing with oGCD's.

What I do NOT want:

* DoT's (This is a me thing, tracking DoT's suck and are anti-fun imho)
* The old system of Trances

My overall request is simple. I'm not one for ideas so I can summarize it as: More buttons to press, and more requirement to THINK about which buttons I'm pressing. That'd be covered by your own readjustment to gem abilities and more oGCDs to weave. I'm open to the idea of DoTs but I'm not married to them.

[Aikaal]

There's no beating around the bush, there are extremely capable casual players and some of them surely played old SMN effectively, so new SMN must have been created for a hypothetical low denominator player, and if that wasn't their intention then they screwed up more grievously. Just designing an "easy going" job doesn't demand you leave all nuance behind.

If I tell you I have a cousin who says SMN is too complicated / more complicated than GNB, would you believe me? I see the current SMN as a girl who gets really pretty and photoshopped her picture to look absolutely stunning but when you go and meet her, you realized you were lied.

By the way, I actually have a cousin that thinks this way and yes, her summoner underperforms drastically.

Lets play a game, it's called "You have two seconds to tell me what colour these orbs are".

BEAUTIFUL