Summoner feels really, really dumbed down now

[Aikaal]

Why does aveyond keep barging into various Summoner threads and making long-winded post with the same tired old arguments just to get ratio'd out of existence again and again by people that are just tired of them?

What is the end goal here?

I genuinely don't understand.

Because its the only way to tell SE "We appreciate the rework but... you kinda missed the mark, please try again because we're not having fun."

[HyperSMB]

I LOVE new SMN. I don't know how to say this without irritating people, but the bloated, disgusting, disjointed mess of a disaster class that was old SMN is hopefully dead and buried.

Even if you consider the new version too easy, it is a better base product. It is visually more appealing, it fits the class fantasy far better and there is clear room for additions as we move forward.

To me, that means the rework was a success. Not perfect, but better.

[rewd]

Even if you consider the new version too easy, it is a better base product. It is visually more appealing, it fits the class fantasy far better and there is clear room for additions as we move forward.

What this means is: "If you care about visuals, the job is pretty great. If you care about gameplay, my condolences. If you are lucky, you'll have to wait two years for meaningful additions. However, SE has shown plenty of times that they don't have the greatest track record in this regard. Even ignoring tanks and healers, we can witness how the devs are still ignoring the issues MCH has been having for years and how the new expansion didn't really add anything meaningful to the job, despite the ShB rework having clear room for additions" which perfectly encapsulates SMN issues at the moment.

[Aikaal]

I LOVE new SMN. I don't know how to say this without irritating people, but the bloated, disgusting, disjointed mess of a disaster class that was old SMN is hopefully dead and buried.

Even if you consider the new version too easy, it is a better base product. It is visually more appealing, it fits the class fantasy far better and there is clear room for additions as we move forward.

To me, that means the rework was a success. Not perfect, but better.

If my visually more appealing, you mean flash banging my face on P3S and kill myself because I couldn't see any mechanic... then yeah :\ It is great but I just have to tune it down in raid. Imagine summon Titan/Ifrit in P3S. Everything is red and orange.

SMN was designed for casual players, not raiders. I feel that's where they messed up.

[tearagion]

If my visually more appealing, you mean flash banging my face on P3S and kill myself because I couldn't see any mechanic... then yeah :\ It is great but I just have to tune it down in raid. Imagine summon Titan/Ifrit in P3S. Everything is red and orange.

SMN was designed for casual players, not raiders. I feel that's where they messed up.

There's no beating around the bush, there are extremely capable casual players and some of them surely played old SMN effectively, so new SMN must have been created for a hypothetical low denominator player, and if that wasn't their intention then they screwed up more grievously. Just designing an "easy going" job doesn't demand you leave all nuance behind.

[Myon88]

If my visually more appealing, you mean flash banging my face on P3S and kill myself because I couldn't see any mechanic... then yeah :\ It is great but I just have to tune it down in raid. Imagine summon Titan/Ifrit in P3S. Everything is red and orange.

SMN was designed for casual players, not raiders. I feel that's where they messed up.

Lets play a game, it's called "You have two seconds to tell me what colour these orbs are".

[BaconBits]

Trick question, there are no orbs, only Teedus.

[Aikaal]

There's no beating around the bush, there are extremely capable casual players and some of them surely played old SMN effectively, so new SMN must have been created for a hypothetical low denominator player, and if that wasn't their intention then they screwed up more grievously. Just designing an "easy going" job doesn't demand you leave all nuance behind.

If I tell you I have a cousin who says SMN is too complicated / more complicated than GNB, would you believe me? I see the current SMN as a girl who gets really pretty and photoshopped her picture to look absolutely stunning but when you go and meet her, you realized you were lied.

By the way, I actually have a cousin that thinks this way and yes, her summoner underperforms drastically.

Lets play a game, it's called "You have two seconds to tell me what colour these orbs are".

BEAUTIFUL

[Shuuli]

Lets play a game, it's called "You have two seconds to tell me what colour these orbs are".

This... 100% describes my experience on why i LOVE P2S I CAN SEE in it.
P1S, P3S, is absolute face on the screen, eyes out of your skull to be able to see xD. My eyes legit feel tired after P3S runs. I needed to change most of my settings on visuals to be able to run this raid. Maybe I am just old. I already have bad eyesight, this aint helps for sure.

I always say this. New summoner looks really fancy, I really like the "cool" aspect of it. But you must tune down those pretty effects or you really will not see anything in some of the fights... so then whats the point of it being pretty if I cannot see it?

[Lilyth]

I LOVE new SMN. I don't know how to say this without irritating people, but the bloated, disgusting, disjointed mess of a disaster class that was old SMN is hopefully dead and buried.

Even if you consider the new version too easy, it is a better base product. It is visually more appealing, it fits the class fantasy far better and there is clear room for additions as we move forward.

To me, that means the rework was a success. Not perfect, but better.

Don't worry, sharing your feelings is perfectly fine. We do however have some different opinions like, for example, how personally I don't think old SMN was bloated at all. It required what, 3 hotbars to play? And even then I still had space for some fluffy macros and Physick. This "bloat" argument just comes across as being lazy to me and anything barely worth more than 2 hotbars seems to fall into this category nowadays.



Now to quote what you said, disgusting is my opinion of the current Smn as well. There are such things as an easy class, but just the fact that you can reduce this one to a 1 button macro spam, while yielding above average results, should be able to get my point across. What other class can you confidently say you're already doing your max level rotation at level 26? Maybe Disciples of the Land, but even them get a whole new mini-game in collectables when they reach lvl 50.

Disjointed, however, is not an opinion and is just wrong. Anyone who mastered the old class could explain to you how the previous skills worked and flowed nicely in a well put together rotation. It did require more than pressing whatever lighted up next, maybe that's why some people were not very fond of its "complexity".

All and all it will most likely stay dead and buried. But what a lot of people want is not to revive the old incarnation, it's just to get a little more out of the simplistic, lobotomized mess, that the current one is.