Summoner feels really, really dumbed down now

[aveyond-dreams]

Fenrir was one of FFXI's best summons, all it takes is for another culture somewhere in the world to say "Fenrir is our god as well as the name of that wolf from Coerthas..." and it's lore compliant, though admittedly I would rather not see him until Shiva/Ramuh/Levi. I do absolutely disagree with the concept of locking summons into niche roles again.

Future gem summons do not have to necessarily be copy-pastes of Ifrit/Titan/Garuda's mechanics either, and given how much demand there is for more full sized summons I do not see a future where "resources are not devoted" to making at least 1 new summon per expansion. Failing mechanical uniqueness, I'll accept them as glamours though I'd rather that not be the case.

(Also for goodness sake SE stop making us fight orange on top of orange and other similar light-coloured backgrounds. The time to learn that lesson was at the start of Shb with the arenas from Mt. Gulg, remember?)

[SieyaM]

I can definitely understand wanting to add more oGCD things to weave for SMN, but you do have to be careful how they are added. Anything oGCD that has to be used during your titan phase means that you have to double weave to use it since Mountain buster is an oGCD that you get after every GCD topaz rite you use. Because of latency issues a number of people have with this game double weaving can be incredibly difficult for some or near impossible through no fault of their own. Also yeah, Carbuncle either needs to be worked so it is available all the time to use Aegis and Light or they need to decouple those skills from Carbuncle all together which would then make him completely useless. Maybe adding two abilities that will proc off of gemshine or brilliance skills could be added, although again if something procs off of topaz rite or catastrophe it will end up either being a situation where you have to double weave or you have to choose between using topaz rite or this new procced ability.

[Sequora]

One idea I had was to add some kind of a proc based system, where something would have a % based chance to “upgrade one of your gems”, but you had to use it next. Like ruby would upgrade to a diamond and you could summon shiva, who would maybe have a slight twist on ifrit’s rotation. Topaz would upgrade to Ramuh, and Garuda would upgrade to leviathan because of dropsy puddles

[remiff]

One idea I had was to add some kind of a proc based system, where something would have a % based chance to “upgrade one of your gems”, but you had to use it next. Like ruby would upgrade to a diamond and you could summon shiva, who would maybe have a slight twist on ifrit’s rotation. Topaz would upgrade to Ramuh, and Garuda would upgrade to leviathan because of dropsy puddles

you won't see any new summon until 7.0, 6.1 balances are still minor micro reworks with existing spells, the only things they might do is etherflow and r4 changes and some hotfixes ont the raidbuff/shield .
and anyway proc systems are a bad idea for the summoner, they had done it in the past with r4, and it was not good.

[Sequora]

you won't see any new summon until 7.0, 6.1 balances are still minor micro reworks with existing spells, the only things they might do is etherflow and r4 changes and some hotfixes ont the raidbuff/shield .
and anyway proc systems are a bad idea for the summoner, they had done it in the past with r4, and it was not good.

I think adding procs would give us something yo manage. The biggest complaint I’ve seen about the ease of the job, is that there’s nothing for us to manage. Black mage has long cast times, ice/fire stances, procs, a DoT, poly stacks. Red mage has procs, and the mana gauge.

Summoner has a set rotation where you just dump the resources of your current phase, and then move onto the next. I think this iteration has a lot of potential, but there’s nothing to track, and nothing that makes a good summoner substantially better than a bad one.

My ideas were more for like 7.0 changes. I would like to see some smaller changes in 6.1.

[Caduagm]

snip

Do you have a life outside of this forum, or all you do is basically sitting in front of a screen and write ASAP the same things about new and old SMN every time? Girl, go do some sunbathing.

[XmissionsX]

Did se actually ever fix any jobs between patches ?

I personally fear we need to wait two years for any changes to the job, which is a very long time, the only thing they maybe able to solve is the low dps output as the little changes they made to the dps output of smn didn’t help anything and because they buffed a lot of other classes it is actually worse now. And we at least could be a top three dps class again in stead of the bottom three dps we are now.

The only point I wanted to make with all my posts is to let se know that it’s not okay to completely change the play style of a job, because current players like playing that job why would they otherwise play it ?

I would already be happy if se at least acknowledged that this smn completely play style rework was a mistake and that they went to far so I could be reassured that they will not do the same to a other class I would like to main.

[aveyond-dreams]

Did se actually ever fix any jobs between patches ?

I personally fear we need to wait two years for any changes to the job, which is a very long time, the only thing they maybe able to solve is the low dps output as the little changes they made to the dps output of smn didn’t help anything and because they buffed a lot of other classes it is actually worse now. And we at least could be a top three dps class again in stead of the bottom three dps we are now.

The only point I wanted to make with all my posts is to let se know that it’s not okay to completely change the play style of a job, because current players like playing that job why would they otherwise play it ?

I would already be happy if se at least acknowledged that this smn completely play style rework was a mistake and that they went to far so I could be reassured that they will not do the same to a other class I would like to main.

Not every class has the right to constantly remain as top dps, you should also be playing what you find the most fun as opposed to whatever is dealing the highest damage at the time. (Besides that, ultimately what will matter most is knowing mechanics to clear fights properly.)

They reserve the right to change jobs as they see fit. This includes new Summoner of course, but given the widespread positive sentiments and satisfaction with the current job, a total reversion or another rework is unlikely to happen. I've seen things change drastically from the early days of ARR to the point we're at in EW and the only advice I can give is to try and sample a wide variety of jobs. With fair warning, Bard and Samurai are likely to see some changes in the future because one can hardly be called a Bard and the other is suffering from too much button bloat and general chaos.

So no, just because a handful of "complexity!" fans are upset doesn't mean the rework was a mistake, and a fundamental redesign from the ground-up was necessary in this case because the job had veered too far away from what most would recognize as a Summoner both mechanically and visually. Being married to any one particular job is entirely your decision, so you have to be ready and willing to accept unexpected changes as they come.

[Aikaal]

Not every class has the right to constantly remain as top dps, you should also be playing what you find the most fun as opposed to whatever is dealing the highest damage at the time. (Besides that, ultimately what will matter most is knowing mechanics to clear fights properly.)

So no, just because a handful of "complexity!" fans are upset doesn't mean the rework was a mistake, and a fundamental redesign from the ground-up was necessary in this case because the job had veered too far away from what most would recognize as a Summoner both mechanically and visually. Being married to any one particular job is entirely your decision, so you have to be ready and willing to accept unexpected changes as they come.

I'll take it from another perspective; Not every job should expect to be the worst DPS either right? MCH is the bottom of the barrel since ShB. Complexity of a job is biased to begin with. I'm bad with priority systems personally, I'm not a great Ranged Physical DPS player. That said, I've logged oranged on Stormblood Tornado Kick rotation Monk which was arguably a lot more "complex". I honestly started to play Reaper and there's nothing more easy to play than Reaper. I'm sure some RPR mains will go and say, "Try building a triple Enshroud burst". Yeah, that is more difficult to pull. You can honestly, apply the same concept to any job in the game.

If the devs wants to see Melee > Caster > Ranged Physical. Fine, but there's a God damn anomaly in BLM right now. True balance is impossible anyways, the best we could see imho is a difference of about 5% to 8% between the best and worst. Right now it's about 12%. They buffed top tier jobs like MNK and BLM and then gave insulting buffs on SMN & MCH.

If you want more, you can always check This Video

[Rolder50]

Did se actually ever fix any jobs between patches ?

I personally fear we need to wait two years for any changes to the job, which is a very long time, the only thing they maybe able to solve is the low dps output as the little changes they made to the dps output of smn didn’t help anything and because they buffed a lot of other classes it is actually worse now. And we at least could be a top three dps class again in stead of the bottom three dps we are now.

The only point I wanted to make with all my posts is to let se know that it’s not okay to completely change the play style of a job, because current players like playing that job why would they otherwise play it ?

I would already be happy if se at least acknowledged that this smn completely play style rework was a mistake and that they went to far so I could be reassured that they will not do the same to a other class I would like to main.

Summoner was fixed reasonably well between 5.0 and 5.1 when they changed the Egi Assault skills from oGCD to GCD skills, so there's some precedence. Pretty amusing that the example is also summoner, though.