Summoner feels really, really dumbed down now

[IruruCece]

Sorry, but if likes on Summoner videos on youtube and posts praising the rework on other social media sites do not count as true likes, then neither do forum likes on posts that are just saying how they don't like the changes or are just fishing for internet points. I did not make these rules, the "complexity!" lovers crowd did ages ago in another of their interesting posts.

The only "rules" that anyone has actually declared in this and basically every other thread you coincidentally happen to be participating in is the one where you decided you would be the "representative" for everyone who actually enjoys these changes and the voice of "opposition", and also your repeated insistence that the discussion about them is effectively over and therefore nobody should make threads complaining about them, discuss them, or debate about them because, in your eyes, the matter is "settled".

You're clownshoes personified, bud. People can and will post whatever criticisms they have about the job however they want to, and hopefully that keeps you up at night knowing that at any point, at any time, someone might actually not have an opinion that matches yours and are posting it on the forums without your approval. Based on what you consider participation in discussion to be, it's a fair bet that it actually does.

[aveyond-dreams]

If you think the post above is doing any favors to your cause, you need to reconsider. Of course you can have a different opinion, but there are some things that indeed have been set in stone. They straight up said, no more poison mage Summoner, and there was no way forward with how that design turned out. They decided to make things streamlined and accessible and the result was a success. If you're raising your voice in support of the old then expect for others to raise theirs in support of the new.

Fundamentally there is no pleasing the two crowds in the same job, and now that Summoner has veered away from your wants it is time to request whatever you wish in a new job. Though again, given your present tone there is no certainty whether they will take sympathy. The time to convince people of the merits of such a design was months ago, and instead those systems and bloat were rejected by the majority. How then, with every other post written as they are, can you expect to see reversions or a new job tailor made to your specifications? It's clear that fans of old SMN are bothered by new people enjoying and expressing their enjoyment of the changes more than anything, so much so that they decide to act out the way they do.

For the past several months, fans of old SMN and its "complexity!" have succeeded in painting themselves in such a negative light as to drive more and more people away from their cause. I look forward to the coming months, seeing as how if present trends hold there will be less and less people willing to entertain such discussions. Regardless, reversion or no I remain unaffected. I do not play only one job, so if something goes wrong on one I have others to fall back on. I developed this habit given that Summoner was in the state that it was for the past 8 years. So once more that crowd is implored, make your own support thread and ask for old systems in a new job there. Historically, this is how changes are effectively requested and introduced in game.

[IruruCece]

"I'm trolling these threads because one time, I read posts I disagreed with, and therefore it's okay for me to act the way I do."

If you actually had an interest in improving discourse, you'd start by looking in a mirror and telling the person you see in it to post better.

For the past several months, you, as the self-proclaimed voice of all who enjoy these changes, have succeeded in painting everyone who enjoys them in a negative light. You've also dragged down the discussion to "I got what I want, neener neener, go beg for another job" and for some reason, you expect anyone to engage you with an open mind and respect you refuse to offer anyone. I suspect this could be the result of a cranial-rectal inversion; there is no cure.

[XmissionsX]

Maybe just ignore a certain person in this thread or forum if I check the comment history, it’s pretty clear when someone just likes to rattle people's cages instead of contributing to the discussion. Or at least stop the quotes so I just can put that person on the ignore list.

[BaconBits]

Why does aveyond keep barging into various Summoner threads and making long-winded post with the same tired old arguments just to get ratio'd out of existence again and again by people that are just tired of them?

What is the end goal here?

I genuinely don't understand.

[IruruCece]

Why does aveyond keep barging into various Summoner threads and making long-winded post with the same tired old arguments just to get ratio'd out of existence again and again by people that are just tired of them?

What is the end goal here?

I genuinely don't understand.

With summoner being literally reduced to a single macro button, posting garbage on this forum is currently the only way to increase engagement with the game for any summoner player, regardless if they like the changes or not.

[aveyond-dreams]

Given how horrible my experience with Summoner was in Shadowbringers, which is to say nothing of the abysmal state of the job for the past 8 years in general, I cannot say that I’ll ever tire of voicing just how dissatisfied I was with it and how impressed I am with its new direction. The future of the job looks promising, and I am glad that the job has been stripped of its bloat and is no longer burdened by a completely disjointed kit. If you want to push in favor of that, then I will push against it.

Meaningful additions are acceptable and welcome, busywork isn't. If you want a *new* class that is nothing but busywork like old SMN was, since it has been made explicitly clear that we are not going down that road again, direct your energies to the appropriate channels and at least attempt to be nice if you want people to take sympathy for your cause.

[Aikaal]

Given how horrible my experience with Summoner was in Shadowbringers, which is to say nothing of the abysmal state of the job for the past 8 years in general, I cannot say that I’ll ever tire of voicing just how dissatisfied I was with it and how impressed I am with its new direction. The future of the job looks promising, and I am glad that the job has been stripped of its bloat and is no longer burdened by a completely disjointed kit. If you want to push in favor of that, then I will push against it.

Meaningful additions are acceptable and welcome, busywork isn't. If you want a *new* class that is nothing but busywork like old SMN was, since it has been made explicitly clear that we are not going down that road again, direct your energies to the appropriate channels and at least attempt to be nice if you want people to take sympathy for your cause.

It looks promising but right now, I would rather have the old SMN back. I know the changes are permanent, I don't want to be a poison mage type on my SMN. But SMN in ShB, the gameplay was better, in EW; at least twice per raid night I'll be complaining how I can't properly play and optimize my job. P2S is a living nightmare that requires another set of BiS to even align your Bahamut with buff windows.

There's enough heat that I'm sure eventually, the devs will address this issue; however, their silence and recent balance patch is stressing the community. There's no word of fixing issues on our complain, it feels like they don't play that job or know how it works (I'm sure they do, but they don't mention anything about it) It feels like they think the jobs fine. It feels like it fines that BLM is doing 700~800 more DPS than RDM/SMN. It doesn,t feel like they compare SMN to a caster but to a Ranged Phys because of the thing called mobility which adds nothing.

When they made the rework, they gave something SMNs didn't ask for; mobility. If anything, in FF lore and games in general, it takes a long time to cast Summon spells. That's a significant identity crisis.

[aveyond-dreams]

Cast times in exchange for higher damage are an acceptable solution, not enough of an issue that I'd call it an identity crisis but I can definitely understand that viewpoint in terms of it falling under the caster role. While I concede it would have been nice to have gotten an extra charge of aetherflow added in the balance patch I wasn't expecting much besides number changes. What I cannot ever justify is Shb SMN-but it's ultimately better to focus on improvements to the current job.

[CKNovel]

Why does aveyond keep barging into various Summoner threads and making long-winded post with the same tired old arguments just to get ratio'd out of existence again and again by people that are just tired of them?

What is the end goal here?

I genuinely don't understand.

Sometimes I wonder if it's an AI.
Respectfully, with the amount of questionable and random argument, they sounds like an self-learning AI to debate about "which is better".

At least they keep the thread alive and proves how SMN is flawed.