What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Stachiko]

At what point would you take action against her? When she was helping you through some of the biggest fights through her blessing? Where in the chronology between 1.0 (or 2.0) up to 6.0 would you have the chance to come around and take action against her?

Actually, she wanted to see if mankind could survive on their own and indeed initiated the fight herself. So, taking action against her would've just played into her plan. The only difference is it'd be going out of the WoL's character to do it sooner than the trial. Because up to that point, she had not taken action against the WoL.

That was quite some time ago when I said that. Plenty of folks here have drawn it out far better than I have. So I'll try to keep my answer short.

I would've taken action in the past. She openly stated she would let time repeat itself, thus withholding information from her fellow ancients. Newfound information that might stop the final days from ever happening.

Of course, that's one theory. What we instead received was an explanation we were forced to accept. She gambled on what some of us here would deem a lesser or immoral option.

[Berteaux_Braumegain]

I see a lot of people slamming Hydaelyn for not being more upfront about herself with the Warrior of Light, but it seems like that would've been a bad idea.

Imagine that A Realm Reborn starts with Hydaelyn introducing herself as a Primal, and mentioning that she wants you to defeat the other Primals on the Source to help save Eorzea. And then you get to Ifrit and find out that Primals brainwash their followers into following their will, which usually puts them into conflict with other gods (as we see with Garuda fighting against Titan and Ifrit later). What's Hydaelyn supposed to do to gain the Warrior of Light's trust at that point? Would the fanbase really accept the answer "Nah, you're not brainwashed. I'm actually a good Primal!"?

I don't really understand why there's a portion of the fanbase that wanted Hydaelyn to be evil anyway. Even from the beginning of the story, other Primals like Ramuh offer sentiments about Hydaelyn that suggest that she has good intentions for the world. We don't get the full story and she's secretive, sure, but I never got the impression that she was being intentionally malicious. Heck, the biggest anti-Hydaelyn speakers were either the crazy, evil Primals or Lahabrea going on about how much he wants to destroy the world and let chaos reign!

What are you talking about? When was Venat sacrificing the other shards? (On a side note, is the Source considered a shard as well or just the reflections?)

I think they're referring to how Hydaelyn's backup plan would be for the people of Etheirys to flee elsewhere, which would lead to Meteion destroying the world and thereby the other reflections of Etheirys. Thancred, notably, was not entertaining the possibility of not fighting Meteion because he was worried about Ryne.

That said, if Hydaelyn is tapped out on power and the Warrior of Light can't defeat Meteion, I'm not really sure what else the backup plan could be. It's clear Hydaelyn would prefer that they can defeat Meteion, but she left an out for the people of the Source so that SOMETHING could survive in the event that result wasn't possible.

[linayar]

I would've taken action in the past.

And in the process, lose everything that the WoL knew and cared about.

She openly stated she would let time repeat itself, thus withholding information from her fellow ancients. Newfound information that might stop the final days from ever happening.

Of course, that's one theory. What we instead received was an explanation we were forced to accept. She gambled on what some of us here would deem a lesser or immoral option.

Yes, in essence, she has hope on the WoL. It would've been terrible to answer that hope by fighting her for no benefit to the WoL.

I think they're referring to how Hydaelyn's backup plan would be for the people of Etheirys to flee elsewhere, which would lead to Meteion destroying the world and thereby the other reflections of Etheirys. Thancred, notably, was not entertaining the possibility of not fighting Meteion because he was worried about Ryne.

That said, if Hydaelyn is tapped out on power and the Warrior of Light can't defeat Meteion, I'm not really sure what else the backup plan could be. It's clear Hydaelyn would prefer that they can defeat Meteion, but she left an out for the people of the Source so that SOMETHING could survive in the event that result wasn't possible.

By fleeing, Meteion wouldn't have anything to do with the Source. If anything, that would've saved the shards, at least until Meteion finds them again. But that's why it's a last resort. It's meant to prolong their chance of survival.

[AnaviAnael]

Another thing that bothered me a bit by the story: We spent a good amount of time talking about tempering and its effects on the bodies and souls of the tempered, how it shapes and corrupts them, yet the fact that the ascians are tempered never gets brought up again after its flavor text in Shadowbringers.

[KizuyaKatogami]

What are you talking about? When was Venat sacrificing the other shards? (On a side note, is the Source considered a shard as well or just the reflections?)

How were they jeopardizing billions of people? Either way, we weren't put in a position to judge them.

Actually, if you want to put it that way, that's fine by me. As I said, this story is told from our point of view. Anything that harms us is to be fought. That's not even something to be argued against.

I don't think we have enough information regarding this. It seems to me that the cutscene we saw was a recreation centered on Venat's motivation, rather than a chronological retelling of the events that happened.

At what point would you take action against her? When she was helping you through some of the biggest fights through her blessing? Where in the chronology between 1.0 (or 2.0) up to 6.0 would you have the chance to come around and take action against her?

Actually, she wanted to see if mankind could survive on their own and indeed initiated the fight herself. So, taking action against her would've just played into her plan. The only difference is it'd be going out of the WoL's character to do it sooner than the trial. Because up to that point, she had not taken action against the WoL.

1.Her backup plan involved fleeing the source, which means once Meteion destroyed it, all the shards would cease to exist. She would destroy it, as she was essentially destroying everything in her path at that point. Even the scions acknowledge it would happen and that they wouldnt leave the shards behind.
2.They acknowledged that in messing with time they could cause their own timeline to cease to exist,everyone in that timeline would be dead, and they still went along with it.
3.Thats fine, its your opinion, however i personally find it extremely hypocritical based on the themes the writers have been pushing constantly.
4.The cutscene we saw was a recording was it not? Stands to reason it was an accurate representation. They didnt even know they were going to die and be sacrificed as they lament the loss of Venat. If they knew they were being sacrificed why would they lament losing her? They'd be dead.


In the end. all of this could've bene avoided if she had just simply gave her knowledge to others and formulated a plan instead of giving up on them and placing her trust in someone she had only just met.

[Stachiko]

And in the process, lose everything that the WoL knew and cared about.

Her decision could have caused that anyways. Time loops are not easy to write around. EW dealt with it poorly.

That's not necessarily my point though. She took it all upon herself to dictate the fate for all of mankind. There's a certain negligence to that. A certain horrifying realization.

[linayar]

1.Her backup plan involved fleeing the source, which means once Meteion destroyed it, all the shards would cease to exist. She would destroy it, as she was essentially destroying everything in her path at that point. Even the scions acknowledge it would happen and that they wouldnt leave the shards behind.

We don't actually know what she would do. That was just a conversation between the Scions and the Loporrits. Her actions so far were against the people of the Source, not the planet itself.

2.They acknowledged that in messing with time they could cause their own timeline to cease to exist,everyone in that timeline would be dead, and they still went along with it.

Indeed, but they were also already dying, and it seemed the end was near anyway. Regardless, just like I have no reason to be against the Ancients, I have no reason to be against them. My problem is with the Ascians, and regardless of what Venat did, she did not make them try to kill the WoL and the people we know.

3.Thats fine, its your opinion, however i personally find it extremely hypocritical based on the themes the writers have been pushing constantly.

Well, I disagree with the interpretation of how those themes were represented in the story. For one, at no point in explaining the reasoning of the Ascians did they ever try to make them the good guys, so any problem you may have with Venat has nothing to do with the fact of the Ascians and the WoL's current situation.

4.The cutscene we saw was a recording was it not? Stands to reason it was an accurate representation. They didnt even know they were going to die and be sacrificed as they lament the loss of Venat. If they knew they were being sacrificed why would they lament losing her? They'd be dead.

In the end. all of this could've bene avoided if she had just simply gave her knowledge to others and formulated a plan instead of giving up on them and placing her trust in someone she had only just met.

I don't think it was ever stated one way or another. It's also not in context, unless you think Venat just walk by Emet without Emet trying to get her to help.

Her decision could have caused that anyways. Time loops are not easy to write around. EW dealt with it poorly.

That's not necessarily my point though. She took it all upon herself to dictate the fate for all of mankind. There's a certain negligence to that. A certain horrifying realization.

It is indeed not easy to write about time loop, but we know that the Ancients never figured out the cause, so it's not within reason to allow Venat to make her choice of keeping silent due to her explanation.

There's a certain negligence in going back in time in the first place. We were told not to interfere, and yet not only did we interfere, we told them about the situation.

[ApolloGenX]

Every time Venat/Hydaelyn said "My children"

What I HEARD was "My precious little sundered mediocres"...... it was not endearing.

[linayar]

Every time Venat/Hydaelyn said "My children"

What I HEARD was "My precious little sundered mediocres"...... it was not endearing.

It sounds like the problem is with you if you think parents can't truly love or be endearing to mediocre children.

[ApolloGenX]

It sounds like the problem is with you if you think parents can't truly love or be endearing to mediocre children.

I love this response- it is both critical of me while acknowledging our mediocrity. You win.