What's next for new jobs after Endwalker.

[Seraphor]

I wouldn't be so confident as to say that the next jobs will both be DPS jobs at this point. This logic is based around the pattern we've established thus far over the last 3 expansions, but we haven't seen this pattern actually loop, therefore it may not be a pattern at all. It's certainly a possibility, but I would not say it's a given just yet. It's also possible that we may see 1 DPS and 1 Tank and establish DPS/Tank > DPS/Healer > etc. As a potential rhythm for the next few expansions, but there's also the possibility that we'll start only seeing 1 job sometime soon. The main aspect about this that I dread is the prospect that we might only see DPS jobs after crossing that threshold, and so I hope we continue getting 2 for at least a few more expansions.

I don't see us getting any more tanks or healers. We have an even spread now and they've struggled to make the ones we have unique enough as it is, plus the ones we have already cover pretty much all niches.
We're certainly not getting anything like a pet tank job or a non-caster healer.

It likely is one dps job per expansion from here on out.
I'd wager; 7.0 = caster, 8.0 = phys ranged, 9.0 = scouting melee
And that's probably it. That would take us to 2027.

[elioaiko]

I don't see us getting any more tanks or healers. We have an even spread now and they've struggled to make the ones we have unique enough as it is, plus the ones we have already cover pretty much all niches.
We're certainly not getting anything like a pet tank job or a non-caster healer.

It likely is one dps job per expansion from here on out.
I'd wager; 7.0 = caster, 8.0 = phys ranged, 9.0 = scouting melee
And that's probably it. That would take us to 2027.

I don't think we're getting anymore tanks or healers either. They seem to have run out of creative power for supports in general. Perhaps after another batch of bad tank and healer changes after a support-less new jobs will spark some creativity.

DPS is only logical way for them to go. I'm sure it'll be two DPS, a caster (hopefully) and phys ranged/scouting melee.

[Caitlyn]

Maybe no new jobs. We got enough. Better fix or rework the existing ones.

[Garnix]

Maybe no new jobs. We got enough. Better fix or rework the existing ones.

I don't see why people would want more jobs to be reworked in each expansion than what they are already doing.
I mean, they took some risks in their summoner rework. Some people love it, some hate it. Dark Knight is another example of that.
Do we want 5 jobs to be in a similar situation at the same time? I am not sure. That would probably hurt more than it would benefit in my opinion.
Fixing one or two jobs at a time is a better way to approach things in my opinion.

[Jandor]

A Scouting job to share with Ninja, and then I could see us being done at that.

4 tanks, 6 melee DPS, 10 melee jobs overall. 3 ranged physical, 3 ranged magical, 4 healers, 10 ranged jobs overall.

[ty_taurus]

I don't see us getting any more tanks or healers. We have an even spread now and they've struggled to make the ones we have unique enough as it is, plus the ones we have already cover pretty much all niches.
We're certainly not getting anything like a pet tank job or a non-caster healer.

It likely is one dps job per expansion from here on out.
I'd wager; 7.0 = caster, 8.0 = phys ranged, 9.0 = scouting melee
And that's probably it. That would take us to 2027.

That mentality breaks my heart a little bit. The only limit to what you can create is your own creativity, and so long as the the game continues to expand in terms of playerbase, there will always be the avenue of expanding on the job design team to bring in more hands to experiment with and expand on job balance. There has never been a game with perfect balance, and there will always be work to be done to continue to maintain the equilibrium between jobs as much as possible, and saying that we cant have anything new because we've yet to achieve perfect balance is a stifling approach to have in game design.

[Seraphor]

That mentality breaks my heart a little bit. The only limit to what you can create is your own creativity, and so long as the the game continues to expand in terms of playerbase, there will always be the avenue of expanding on the job design team to bring in more hands to experiment with and expand on job balance. There has never been a game with perfect balance, and there will always be work to be done to continue to maintain the equilibrium between jobs as much as possible, and saying that we cant have anything new because we've yet to achieve perfect balance is a stifling approach to have in game design.

Swamping the game with too many jobs would be a functional and aesthetic mess.
Each job needs to have it's own unique and distinct identity, in terms of visual design, mechanical execution and lore. You throw too many of those out there and it's just chaos, not to mention the fact that each additional job compounds the workload of each subsequent expansion near exponentially.

Plus, this is still a Final Fantasy game. There's expectations and precedent to take into consideration. That's why we have icons like Black Mage, instead of watering things down with stuff like Fire Mage and Frost Mage.
The job with the least precedence so far is Reaper, and even that has design ties to FF Type-0.

We simply can't have as many jobs as we want. Each job needs to justify it's existence.

We could potentially gain Mystic Knight as a tank, there's a series precedent there, but is another tank job justified? Would Mystic Knight as a tank bring anything new the other tanks don't already do? Would it be unique enough? Would it use a unique weapon? Is there a compelling story to tell that could only be told through Mystic Knight job quests? Is there enough demand for a fifth tank? Would it get more people playing tanks? Does that justify stretching the workload further? All of these need sufficient answers.

Another example is a job concept someone keeps posting, a 'Modern Assassin' job that dual wields a pistol and a katana. By all means in some other game it could be a cool job to play, but in the context of FF14 it doesn't tick the boxes, it doesn't quite fit the games aesthetic and it's not using any unique weapons, in fact it's amalgamating bits of three jobs, Machinist, Samurai and Ninja. So in terms of flexing your creative muscles, go for it, but it's not something that's going to make the cut for a new job in FF14.

[Stepjam]

That mentality breaks my heart a little bit. The only limit to what you can create is your own creativity, and so long as the the game continues to expand in terms of playerbase, there will always be the avenue of expanding on the job design team to bring in more hands to experiment with and expand on job balance. There has never been a game with perfect balance, and there will always be work to be done to continue to maintain the equilibrium between jobs as much as possible, and saying that we cant have anything new because we've yet to achieve perfect balance is a stifling approach to have in game design.

Only issue is that they are also limited by the formula of the game and by balance. Any class they make has to fit into the DPS/Tank/Healer trinity and needs to be able to be balanced tightly with the rest. More experimental stuff like Blue Mage is harder to balance against the rest of the classes which is why it's its own separate thing. Short of adding like a support role or something to make it 4 roles instead of 3, it's going to become increasingly harder to innovate in ways that don't feel like they are just grasping at straws.

[ty_taurus]

Swamping the game with too many jobs would be a functional and aesthetic mess.
Each job needs to have it's own unique and distinct identity, in terms of visual design, mechanical execution and lore. You throw too many of those out there and it's just chaos, not to mention the fact that each additional job compounds the workload of each subsequent expansion near exponentially.

Plus, this is still a Final Fantasy game. There's expectations and precedent to take into consideration. That's why we have icons like Black Mage, instead of watering things down with stuff like Fire Mage and Frost Mage.
The job with the least precedence so far is Reaper, and even that has design ties to FF Type-0.

We simply can't have as many jobs as we want. Each job needs to justify it's existence.

We could potentially gain Mystic Knight as a tank, there's a series precedent there, but is another tank job justified? Would Mystic Knight as a tank bring anything new the other tanks don't already do? Would it be unique enough? Would it use a unique weapon? Is there a compelling story to tell that could only be told through Mystic Knight job quests? Is there enough demand for a fifth tank? Would it get more people playing tanks? Does that justify stretching the workload further? All of these need sufficient answers.

Another example is a job concept someone keeps posting, a 'Modern Assassin' job that dual wields a pistol and a katana. By all means in some other game it could be a cool job to play, but in the context of FF14 it doesn't tick the boxes, it doesn't quite fit the games aesthetic and it's not using any unique weapons, in fact it's amalgamating bits of three jobs, Machinist, Samurai and Ninja. So in terms of flexing your creative muscles, go for it, but it's not something that's going to make the cut for a new job in FF14.

I don't mean to suggest we go forever, but there's still a heathy handful of Final Fantasy jobs, several of which can work as tanks or healers, that we haven't worked on yet, and you can have more niches to continue making jobs feel prominent. We will eventually hit a stopping point. Geomancer, for example, has already been introduced into the lore as a healer. They've attempted it already, but the door is still open for them to add an Apothecary as well--a combat Alchemist. Meanwhile Puppetmaster could be introduced as a tank without needing to make it a pet class. Mystic Knight, as you brought up, can work as a casting-style tank.

[SeverianLyonesse]

We simply can't have as many jobs as we want. Each job needs to justify it's existence.

Thank you. Just because a concept exists does not mean it is a particularly strong concept. So far each job's aesthetic has involved some pretty deep identity-crafting (with the exception of the SCH/SMN problem, and I would argue also DNC missed a lot of opportunity to represent non-French dance techniques). New jobs should meet that standard or otherwise be left out.

We could potentially gain Mystic Knight as a tank, there's a series precedent there, but is another tank job justified? Would Mystic Knight as a tank bring anything new the other tanks don't already do? Would it be unique enough? Would it use a unique weapon? Is there a compelling story to tell that could only be told through Mystic Knight job quests? Is there enough demand for a fifth tank? Would it get more people playing tanks? Does that justify stretching the workload further? All of these need sufficient answers.

And the answer I think you will agree is no. Elemental imbuement is an empty aesthetic in XIV's battle system where elemental typings are purely flavorful. DRK is really a spiritual successor to XI's Rune Fencer (Magical Greatsword Tank). What wasn't given to DRK was given to RDM (Embolden, Enchanted Rapier). And if you want elemental swords we have SAM (wind/ice) and GNB (fire/lightning). The devs could make a Mystic Knight/Rune Fencer, but there's not much unique design space left; it would just poach from and dilute the job fantasies we already have.

Another example is a job concept someone keeps posting, a 'Modern Assassin' job that dual wields a pistol and a katana. By all means in some other game it could be a cool job to play, but in the context of FF14 it doesn't tick the boxes, it doesn't quite fit the games aesthetic and it's not using any unique weapons, in fact it's amalgamating bits of three jobs, Machinist, Samurai and Ninja. So in terms of flexing your creative muscles, go for it, but it's not something that's going to make the cut for a new job in FF14.

Same thing for proposed Corsair jobs wanting a sword/gun combo. We can't even get dual pistols because "Pistol" is already the weapon of choice for Machinists, and the game has a tendency to reserve weapon terms as being unique to classes. That said, a Canonneer acting as a pseudo-grenadier, longcast P-Range job seems like it could pass for a new job...assuming it passes muster against all the other standards of job design, including whether a cast-time P-range is even feasible.

I posted elsewhere in General, but I think merely having unused weapon archetypes (and a reasonable variety of naming conventions within that archetype) goes a long way in establishing remaining design space. What I have so far:

Fairly Likely
* Whip (Chain, Bolas, Scourge, Flail, Sjambok, Claw)
* Sportsball (Blitzballs and some body-weight moves)

Less Likely
* Greathammer (Sledge, Maul, Morningstar) (The naming design space still exists, even if I struggle to think how WAR isn't functionally living out this weapon fantasy).
* Reflector (Mirror, Glass, Nealika, Tolii) (Might still be struggling to find design space between SGE and AST)
* Polearm (Spade, Bo, etc.) (some slight overlap with Rods/Staves, but I have seem some proposals for a sort of soft GEO/NECRO Aeris/Yuna inspired job)
* Club (Mace, Cudgel, Shillelagh, maybe Macahuitl) (alone is kind of underwhelming and redundant. Would likely have more, either a sub-weapon or make it a compound weapon)
* Judge Dual Weapon (very popular job reference idea, I just don't know what we would call it...could possibly synergize with Greathammers and/or Clubs though)