Dark Knight Megathread

[Archwizard]

Yes, because it's not like being ignored is making any of us feel any better, now is it? Just a simple potency increase would make us feel better and give us hope for 6.1. Which btw, could be at the end of Feb or beginning of March. Instead, we're being told by the lack of changes that DRK is fine, when we all know it isn't.

I'm not saying "it's fine," I'm saying nothing they could have done for 6.08 would have satisfied anyway, and that even with the foreknowledge of "just numbers", a lot of people were getting their hopes up for nothing.
Especially with how little discussion was made prior to exactly now that was just number changes they could have made.

This is the first I'm hearing someone blaming Souleater for DRK's poor survival on wall-to-walls.

If 6.1 drops and there's zilch for DRK still, or nothing that couldn't have been in a numbers pass and thus screwed us unnecessarily for a month, fine. But I fully expect they're looking at DRK on the whole for 6.1 and saving adjustments that might screw up their plans for a rework (or would need to be reverted when it dropped anyway) until they have their ducks in a row.
Does that still screw us over until end of February or beginning of March? Yes. Am I steaming about this fact? I already was before. But I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[OdinelStarrei]

But I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

WHY?

I agree that we were never going to see anything meaningful this patch. But I don't have any hopes for 6.1 either, because I'm literally just setting myself up to be disappointed. They haven't done a single mid-expansion patch for DRK that was turned out in our favor since 4.3. Why would that change now, because we're slightly angrier this time about LD and BW?

They can't be trusted. I'll believe it when I see it, and not a moment sooner.

[Archwizard]

WHY?

... Because what other recourse do we have?

They haven't done a single mid-expansion patch for DRK that was turned out in our favor since 4.3

They could have done something. Chose not to. Just like they have for 6 years. It'll be 7 years soon. Holy shit.

Naive fool. DRKs have been doing this for 6 years?

No, really, this is the problem. I'm refusing the mindset of choosing to believe "Job I Play is the devs' whipping boy", taking every opportunity they aren't looking directly at us personally, and piling it on to a list of bereavements. That just leads to grudges against the devs, which doesn't make for objective feedback they can use, only lambasting they wouldn't want to listen to anyway. If anything, it's a form of self-harm.

[RyuDragnier]

... Because what other recourse do we have?

To actually delete our gearsets and never touch DRK again until they actually change it. Keep in mind the JP playerbase for DRK has a lot of the same complaints we do, and probably have had them for the same amount of time we have. They've been ignoring the DRK playerbase for years now, so why the hell should we give them the benefit of the doubt? We saw the massacre of DRK going from HW to SB, we saw how they've treated MNK and SCH for years, we've seen how they take everything good DRK had originally and thrown it onto newer jobs. We have no reason to give them any such thing. Just like respect, they have to EARN the benefit of the doubt.

[Archwizard]

To actually delete our gearsets and never touch DRK again until they actually change it.

Okay.

Then put your money where your mouth is, buckaroo.

We saw the massacre of DRK going from HW to SB, we saw how they've treated MNK and SCH for years, we've seen how they take everything good DRK had originally and thrown it onto newer jobs. We have no reason to give them any such thing.

... do you understand how toxic this would be in any other context? Keeping a list of grievances dating back years and claiming they hate you for it, despite the fact that they can't change the past and you wouldn't clear that list if DRK was in a good spot like it was most of last expansion, and just pulling it out any time you don't get your way? The insinuation of their incompetence despite still forking out money for them?

Like, go ahead and be disappointed, but there's a certain limit to what's healthy before I have to wonder why you're still here if you have so much pent up anger about it and venom towards the devs.

Because right now I'm hearing a lot of hyperbole and rage over not getting something they never said or promised we were getting. Kinda feels like a hair-trigger.

[RyuDragnier]

... do you understand how toxic this would be in any other context? Keeping a list of grievances dating back years and claiming they hate you for it, despite the fact that they can't change the past and you wouldn't clear that list if DRK was in a good spot like it was most of last expansion, and just pulling it out any time you don't get your way? The insinuation of their incompetence despite still forking out money for them?

Like, go ahead and be disappointed, but there's a certain limit to what's healthy before I have to wonder why you're still here if you have so much pent up anger about it and venom towards the devs.

You do know how many years the DRK playerbase has been waiting for them to finally have a vision for the job, right? They haven't had one since HW, when the job had come out. It had identity, it had kit synergy, it had sustain, it had mitigation. Now look at it, they've stripped EVERYTHING the job had away from it. It no longer has any kind of job identity, the kit has almost no synergy with itself, we have no sustain, we have horrible mitigation. Why on earth would you think any DRK who has played since HW would be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt? If they had cared enough to just give us healing potency increases on the two pitiful heals we had, it'd at least give us hope that they were planning on fixing and bringing back the sustain at the very least.

As for why I'm still here, it's because like every other HW DRK player who still frequents here and posts, I want this job to be better. We've seen it at its best, we're currently seeing it at its worst. There are grounds for SE reworking jobs, they've already done it with MCH/BRD going into SB and with MNK and SMN currently. What I currently want is SE to give us a sign that they understand that DRK needs help. I also want for YOU to understand we're all incredibly tired of this nonsense, frustrated, and angry because we've dealt with this song and dance for years. If SE wants us to give them the benefit of the doubt, the ball is in their court, we gave them it for years and we won't get fooled again.

[Shurrikhan]

When a patch we were explicitly told would only hold offensive potency buffs for Paladin and under-performing DPS doesn't include design adjustments for healers:

Healers were lambasted.

That's not to say DRK shouldn't have at least gotten some basic number tweaks as a tide-over, since such certainly wouldn't step on the toes of future adjustments, but there's little need for hyperbolic reaction. If you want to demand an answer to why a big 6.1 patch, complete with significant rehauls, hasn't arrived yet, feel free, but in the context of this patch itself, not getting something wildly outside the stated scope is hardly "lambasting."

You do know how many years the DRK playerbase has been waiting for them to finally have a vision for the job, right? They haven't had one since HW, when the job had come out. It had identity, it had kit synergy, it had sustain, it had mitigation.

HW DRK had middling mitigation except in fights that could make use of Dark Mind. Dark Dance was a whopping 5% mitigation at most without DA, at which point, like DA-DP, it had antisynergy with DRK's procs. Its sustain was highly MP gated (DA-AD taking up a huge chunk of MP) in a time where MP generation was, apart from BP, limited to single-target actions.

It had identity, but clearly one of happenstance more than intent. And the StB changes to that core (removed MP drain, more DA, since DA was "cool") came direct from feedback to HW DRK. The majority of ShB changes to what remained of the core kit, too (DA is just raw potency anyways, so let's stop having a seizure every other GCD and just use it on potency), came from very often given critiques here on the forums.

Is the problem then that they let us direct their vision of the job too much? That they took the loudest soundbites of player feedback at face value for two expansions only to have that blow up on them (for shallowness of observation / lack of awareness, sure, but just the same)? What visions for the job, if they were to "finally have" one, would we really accept, I wonder? It seems odd to simply "wait for" the devs to grasp a vision for the job all the while having no faith that any positive changes could occur.

There are grounds for SE reworking jobs, they've already done it with MCH/BRD going into SB and with MNK and SMN currently.

You realize MCH and SMN each got gutted even harder than DRK, right? BRD and MNK has survived decently to most, but MCH is not even recognizable in terms of complexity, flow, or gameplay style and EW SMN is practically a bait-and-switch. If you want anything like a HW DRK, these are the examples of what to steer clear of, not to be used as precedents for favorable attention.

Except you are taking it personally. If it wasn't personal wouldn't you not move on with your day? Instead of arguing with salty players such as myself and the Dark Knight mob?

Finding a warrant disproportionate, contextually unjustified, or otherwise unhelpful or distracting, and stating as much, does not require a deep-seated personal investment.

Come 6.1 if DRK stays effectively the same are you going to have Copium for 6.5? 7.0? 8.0?

The likes of 'There's nothing to be gained by loudly rehashed group grief-counseling, let alone such as would drown outgoing productive discussion about the identities and capacities we'd actually want to see on DRK.' =/= copium.

Putting all else in hide block to reduce the amount of visible off-topicness in play. I've contributed more than enough to that already.

[Malthir]

It had identity, it had kit synergy, it had sustain, it had mitigation. Now look at it, they've stripped EVERYTHING the job had away from it. It no longer has any kind of job identity, the kit has almost no synergy with itself, we have no sustain, we have horrible mitigation.

The insult runs deeper than that, they took things away from us and gave it to everyone else. They gutted the class to hand it to others and left DRK's bleeding out. Then instead of coming up with anything to fix the gaping wholes from all the moves/concepts stolen they just bolted on other mechanics from other classes without giving a crap how it would be to play.

Reprise was our move, when we parried we could reduce the damage of an opponent by 10%, remember when we had moves that blinded and debuffed, when all tanks had 15% damage reduction due to tank stance but we could burn mana and enter darkside giving us only a 5% reduction, when we had mechanics. We all know delirium is inner release and blood spiller fel cleave, but lets not also forget that Living shadow is just the machinists mech but worse as we have zero control over it.

Then to add further insult to injury they took away sole survivor from us and then gave it to the new DPS class that took the DRK theme. Have any of you played the reaper story quest, it's basically DRK 2.0.

While I agree that the Paladins damage was an urgent need, the buffs to some of the other classes in the upcoming patch are no where near urgent, all it would take is some acknowledgement, just a "We know DRK's are in a rough spot we are working on it guys" but it's generally just a who cares people will just suffer with it let's focus on other stuff.

[MagiusNecros]

But I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Naive fool. DRKs have been doing this for 6 years? What makes you think anything will change after they've gutted the job and given 60% of their kit to other Tanks, removed Parry, can't be bothered to address BW and LD in any shape or form and have a perpetual raging boner for TBN. The devs are trying so hard to make it fluctuate between being a PLD and a Warrior that there is no identity left.

Best tank tho. Does the most damage. Masochism is your class identity at this point. Too much focus on 15 seconds of oGCD ham with no flow whatsoever.

ShB killed the job and EW killed it even more.