Tank healing is to high

[RyuDragnier]

but thats always been WAR gimick,
WAR has always been a able to gain HP back easily. I think heal on shake was excessive but what ever.
like really what's the problem? its not like WAR is actually broken like it was or required in raids yes someone spent an hour doing p1n but this should be a sign that NM content is mind numbing not that blood whetting is broken.

Tank healing has ALWAYS been good
people have cleared a12s in HW and Bahamut Ultimate with just 8 tanks in ShB.

The problem is they cannot clear a raid by themselves, especially not WHILE it's current content. It's busted. I say this having been playing this game since ARR, with this being the ONLY time I've called a tank's healing busted. Because as much as people complained about DRK's Abyssal Drain back in Stormblood, it only worked for dungeon pulls, not the bosses themselves. This works for both.

[Praesul]

Why in the world does anyone even care what can or can't be soloed when it requires days of practice and ends up taking so long to clear once you actually do nail it down you could have cleared it FIVE TO SIX TIMES in duty finder using any combination of valid comps.

Let's nerf RDM while we're at it because they can cheese bozja duels. They're the only job that can completely invalidate that content and it really makes me upsetties. No job should be able to beat a boss before it does any mechanics.

[Atreides]

Thats the reason I stopped arguing here, nerf x job it is stronger than I am and I don't like that is the norm and the reason why the devs don't read the english forums.
You won't be able to change someones opinion, everyone tries to bruteforce their own opinion anyway.

[Alzinor]

[B]

Overpower healing "for 320% what Decimate healed for before" has nothing to do with max HP. Any reason why you're purposely removing the obviously connected three words immediately after?


No, it wouldn't be. You might as well say that because a party with 4 Dancers can theoretically still clear any Savage fight, they provide the same throughput as a Monk, Reaper, Red Mage, and Bard.

Nascent previously had a hefty lead in dungeons and a noticeable lead in raids, but at least rewarded a few different degrees of skill. It (or "Bloodwhetting") now has a hugely increased lead, especially in dungeons, and rewards only one among all of those earlier aspects.

The difference between ShB Warrior's sustain and EW's is the difference between being able to theoretically cheese mechanics and being able to easily do so, or practically between duoing current content and soloing it. That's significant. And there's no need for that degree of excess nor for yet another area of reward being removed in favor of brainlessness.

You are using overpower on multi target situation, that's why i say it change nothing because, even at shb, i was able to fully heal myself on pack with overpower, so who care if the actual one is stronger than the old decimate, you can't exceeed your maximum hp anyway and the healing is the same : you get topped up to your maximum hp pool. that was my point, comparing healing potency of those 2 spells mean nothing if you are topped up with both anyway.

I'm a main warrior since shb and i can tell you, the old version of nascent flash was already a strong pocket healing, i'm not sure if you've played warrior back in that time but if you did, you clearly missed something in your healing data.

BW is more comfy for sure and add some new features but that's all, the healing is pretty much the same.

And for your last point : who care if a warrior can deal with pack in dungeon or even solo a normal boss ? it is not even the true endgame ? i would understand if warrior was able to solo everything, savage and ultimate included but it is not the case. atm we even allow healers to dps more and dps is part of healer rotations and they still use their heal ogcd when my BW is in CD, in my opinion it is a free win for both side.

Is there a reason the other tanks shouldn't be comparably overpowered in those areas of the game as well, then?

If we must go kicking and screaming against bringing one insane area of the band down just because it doesn't count in Savage, is there any opposition to providing the other tanks similar capability so long as it stays out of savage?

other tank already have their own healing / own tools or own way to survive (drk is a meme but still ok), i don't get what you're talking about.

PLD healing potency is even more insane.

each tank are designed with their own weakness and strenght, warrior may be strong with healing but he have less damage than gnb or drk.

drk may be weak with selfhealing but he have the strongest damage atm.

PLD have the strongest team utility but lack in damage.

I do not complain about it because that's how a mmo should work : unique class with their own design, no point of giving the same toolkit to every tank.

[Maxilor]

So is this literally just a healer ego thing at this point? Wanting WAR to not be able to survive mass pulls on its own, I mean. Seems like a really silly thing to get upset about. PLD and GNB can perform the same feat with proper cooldown rotation. GNB is performing well in raids in addition to its dungeon clearing capabilities. Just throwing that out there.

It totally is a Healer ego thing, and I was guilty of it.

But I thought about it, and having read and took to heart other's opinions I can agree that I was mad at the wrong thing.

To all Healers reading this thread, do not blame Tanks for wanting to be self sustainable.

Blame the game for having content that is so easy a Tank can solo it.

Outside of Savage and Extremes, content is so braindead easy it's actually affecting an entire role's self worth. And it's a symptom of this game's design as a whole.

[Lyth]

Hm. I think there's more to it than that.

Self-sustain is not a mandatory requirement for tanking. The main reason for adding it to a tank is because can be a lot of fun. In my mind, a lot of the entertainment value comes around being rewarded for skillful application of your abilities. What I dislike about the current expansion's take on self-sustain is that a lot of it feels like a trait. Use actions that you would be using anyways (mitigation, your standard rotation) and your HP bar fills up. What I would rather see is a move towards it being more timing based. By this I mean abilities along the line of Deathstrike or Tracer's Recall, where your ability to restore health is contingent on the amount of damage that you've recently taken. Or alternatively, I'd like to see interesting resource juggling, like what DRK did in Stormblood in AoE pulls. Surviving ridiculous situations that other players don't expect you to is fine, but it should be skill driven, and not simply as a reward for picking a job and having a pulse.

I think many people are also missing the bigger issue at stake. There's a trend in job design in making all the roles less dependent on each other. Melee DPS doesn't trust you to position the boss intelligently. So guess what, when it matters, you don't get to. The bosses do it themselves. And I'm fine with that, because invisible Thancred is more reliable. Tanks don't trust their healers to keep them alive. So the tanks can now do it themselves. We've essentially uncoupled all the roles such that you can just jump in and enjoy your single player experience without worrying too much about others messing it up for you outside of team jumprope raidwipes. Overall, this paradigm works out to your disadvantage if you're a tank or a healer. Classically, players pick these roles to be the reliable friend that everyone pulls into their groups to clear content. Now you're just a queue requirement before the single player game starts.

[ForteNightshade]

The problem is they cannot clear a raid by themselves, especially not WHILE it's current content. It's busted. I say this having been playing this game since ARR, with this being the ONLY time I've called a tank's healing busted. Because as much as people complained about DRK's Abyssal Drain back in Stormblood, it only worked for dungeon pulls, not the bosses themselves. This works for both.

Except the issue here isn't inherently Bloodwhetting but the fact P1N does so paltry levels of damage, Warrior can survive long enough to kill it. Why is the solution to nerf Bloodwhetting and not criticize the woefully poor tuning of this encounter? I'm not even denying that Bloodwhetting gets kinda silly but no fight should even allow it to reach this potential in the first place.

It should also be noted Heart of Corundum is, arguably, better than Bloodwhetting in a single target fight but it's the combination of Thrill, Equilibrium and Holmgang that allow Warrior to pull off this nonsense.

[Kabooa]

It should also be noted Heart of Corundum is, arguably, better than Bloodwhetting in a single target fight but it's the combination of Thrill, Equilibrium and Holmgang that allow Warrior to pull off this nonsense.

If you have 80,000 HP as a tank, and are taking an 80,000 buster.

Heart of Corundrum: .85 * .85 = 57,800 damage taken + 900 potency healing. At ~1500 HP per 100 (lowballing), restore 13,500 health.
Final HP: 35,700
+Brutal Shell: 38,700

Bloodwhetting: .9 * .9 = 64,800 - ~6000 (400 shield) = 58,800 damage taken + 1200 potency healing. At ~1500 HP per 100 (lowballing), restore 18,000 HP.
Final HP: 39,200

Please note that as damage intake lowers, the better healing potency is, likewise as damage intake increases, mitigation is better.

This also assumes both tanks are already full HP. If they instead are down one auto attack worth of damage, Bloodwhetting wins out and it isn't even close.

[AziraSyuren]

If you have 80,000 HP as a tank, and are taking an 80,000 buster.

Heart of Corundrum: .85 * .85 = 57,800 damage taken + 900 potency healing. At ~1500 HP per 100 (lowballing), restore 13,500 health.
Final HP: 35,700
+Brutal Shell: 38,700

Bloodwhetting: .9 * .9 = 64,800 - ~6000 (400 shield) = 58,800 damage taken + 1200 potency healing. At ~1500 HP per 100 (lowballing), restore 18,000 HP.
Final HP: 39,200

Please note that as damage intake lowers, the better healing potency is, likewise as damage intake increases, mitigation is better.

This also assumes both tanks are already full HP. If they instead are down one auto attack worth of damage, Bloodwhetting wins out and it isn't even close.

I just did the math myself.

If you throw in your 30% (which you're supposed to do) to both jobs, you'd have to crit at least one of the heals (which you can force with PR or IC, mind) to significantly beat out what GNB can do in the span of 4 GCDs, even if you're assuming both tanks are 10k down from an auto. And if you crit that HoC heal, you'd have to crit two BW heals to significantly beat it.

(mitigating another 10k auto after the TB with or without the 4s 10 and 15% buff active shifts it under 400ish HP in favor of GNB as well)

With all that in mind, BW is much more likely to overheal over the span of 4 GCDs depending on what your healer does, which biases it vastly in favor of GNB, which is I say that HoC is better. Overheal is much less likely on GNB unless the buster doesn't bring you under half health.

[Shurrikhan]

And if you crit that HoC heal, you'd have to crit two BW heals to significantly beat it.

Let's not forget that Warrior can force healing crits, though -- ~1.9 per minute via Inner Chaos.

If you throw in your 30% (which you're supposed to do)

You are not going to be throwing your 30% atop each 25s CD. To treat stacked mitigation (which would actually favor stat-based sustain all the more, just due to mitigation's anti-synergy due to multiplicity) as the basis for general comparison for skills with 14% of the 30%s' CD is... not terribly honest.

BW is much more likely to overheal over the span of 4 GCDs depending on what your healer does, which biases it vastly in favor of GNB

The more damage you take, as would benefit HoC over BW, though... the less likely BW is to overheal. If you put the extra 10k damage via autos into the equation, that's that much less a chance of overhealing.