Final Fantasy 14 Players trying WOW?

[DBriggs304]

Yeah it is all over the internet. Hopefully this will be a good thing for WoW - as in MS takes out the trash and hires competent developers that play their game.

MS is just trash replacing trash.

[Shurrikhan]

It's a matter of degree that actually has significant effect.

As most matters of degree will. I'm just pointing out that it's commensurate to that game's take on what having "completed" a place's open world content looks like. Like you, I'd prefer earlier unlocks (or, remaining requirements being reduced over time), but that design paradigm isn't 'wrong' so much as simply suiting a different context.

If you were made to do it without flight once, then that's great. If this is a repeatable quest, then there's no reason to block flying to get there again. Make all the dangers be present at the quest site so you'll still have to fight there when you drop down.

Ideally, I'd agree with you, but that's also badly limiting. Imagine, for instance, a zone with many distinct sections with various dangers bordering them. If normally going down south to a few world quests in the Ruins area required that I first take a boat down the river, surviving croc attacks to even get there, or pass through dense jungle rife with panthers, that's still a (enjoyable, imo) component of the open world's dangers that obviously isn't going to be suitably reproducible in each separate activity. Much of the interest of the open world is its connections, its pathing, its optimizing around risks and time taken. All that is gone if you reduce everything therein to isolated activities. That's kind of what separates open world play from our tiny square or circle typical instances in the first place.

To back up just a bit:

My preferred model, again, is for the open world to be designed to be interesting even under whatever particular tools, ground and flying mounts included (though I'd always go the way of GW2's Griffin over "true", WoW/XIV-like, physics-less free flight), a player may have. It should feel like a playground and optimizing to reduce time or risk should be a real thing, but that requires also it not be simply a single, cheap solution (like limitless flight in a world without aerial threats).

Few MMOs manage that, period, and not just because they letter wreck it with unfettered flight; for many (imo, XIV included) there was little to nothing there to begin with. But, in the few instances where we've seen decent examples of world design, it looks really lucrative, and I'd hate to see that lost over some assumed obligation that everything be made as quick as possible (i.e., that because flight could exist, it should exist, and should exist asap). In that ideal world, I probably wouldn't lock flight behind grinds, but I might well make it a rare mount for which that flight is the only unique power, and I'd try to futureproof the zone around players' eventually acquiring it (as much to give them more fun in the joy of movement they might have via that flight as to curtail what elements they'd otherwise degrade for themselves).

[linayar]

As most matters of degree will. I'm just pointing out that it's commensurate to that game's take on what having "completed" a place's open world content looks like. Like you, I'd prefer earlier unlocks (or, remaining requirements being reduced over time), but that design paradigm isn't 'wrong' so much as simply suiting a different context.

I don't think I've ever argued over whether it's right or wrong. I simply don't like it because grounding me to such an extent does not make me appreciate the zone/the world, but actually does the opposite. But it obviously works for them, which is why I don't see them changing it.

Ideally, I'd agree with you, but that's also badly limiting. Imagine, for instance, a zone with many distinct sections with various dangers bordering them. If normally going down south to a few world quests in the Ruins area required that I first take a boat down the river, surviving croc attacks to even get there, or pass through dense jungle rife with panthers, that's still a (enjoyable, imo) component of the open world's dangers that obviously isn't going to be suitably reproducible in each separate activity. Much of the interest of the open world is its connections, its pathing, its optimizing around risks and time taken. All that is gone if you reduce everything therein to isolated activities. That's kind of what separates open world play from our tiny square or circle typical instances in the first place.

I deally, that would be the case. In reality, from my own personal experience, none of that matters any more within the first week of exploring the zone. As soon as I know where to go and the awe and wonder of seeing a new zone has worn off, it's just how much of a straight line I can make to my destination. And since I don't pvp, there is minimal danger, especially with enough gear upgrades.

To back up just a bit:

My preferred model, again, is for the open world to be designed to be interesting even under whatever particular tools, ground and flying mounts included (though I'd always go the way of GW2's Griffin over "true", WoW/XIV-like, physics-less free flight), a player may have. It should feel like a playground and optimizing to reduce time or risk should be a real thing, but that requires also it not be simply a single, cheap solution (like limitless flight in a world without aerial threats).

Few MMOs manage that, period, and not just because they letter wreck it with unfettered flight; for many (imo, XIV included) there was little to nothing there to begin with. But, in the few instances where we've seen decent examples of world design, it looks really lucrative, and I'd hate to see that lost over some assumed obligation that everything be made as quick as possible (i.e., that because flight could exist, it should exist, and should exist asap). In that ideal world, I probably wouldn't lock flight behind grinds, but I might well make it a rare mount for which that flight is the only unique power, and I'd try to futureproof the zone around players' eventually acquiring it (as much to give them more fun in the joy of movement they might have via that flight as to curtail what elements they'd otherwise degrade for themselves).

And that's the thing, for me, grounding me for months in the hopes of getting me to enjoy the zone more doesn't work when all I'm doing are dailies and there is nothing interesting on the way to those dailies.

I enjoyed the zone the first time through and unlocking flight sooner would allow me to enjoy it more. That's why, even though FFXIV's zones are more boring in terms of having things to do for me (I don't care for hunts/fates/gathering, maps only with FC, beast tribes depends on the mood), I enjoy them a whole lot more than WoW's zones just in doing MSQ and unlocking flight and then flying around.

[JohncarterIx]

Wow like doing a second job

[Reaperking386]

It is not worth doing atm. Barrier to entry is super high atm, Flying takes almost a month for new zones, the community is aggrevated and unforgiving with mistakes and new players, The story has been completely ruined, pvp is a mess, and most servers are dead with horde being the dominate faction.

[JohncarterIx]

And pked by hord so go figure

[Tanis_Ebonhart]

Eh. I still refuse to support Blizzard. If they're still employed by them they it's by choice so why should I support Blizzard employees? The good ones already left.

[Xtro99]

I don't think I've ever argued over whether it's right or wrong. I simply don't like it because grounding me to such an extent does not make me appreciate the zone/the world, but actually does the opposite. But it obviously works for them, which is why I don't see them changing it.

I deally, that would be the case. In reality, from my own personal experience, none of that matters any more within the first week of exploring the zone. As soon as I know where to go and the awe and wonder of seeing a new zone has worn off, it's just how much of a straight line I can make to my destination. And since I don't pvp, there is minimal danger, especially with enough gear upgrades.

And that's the thing, for me, grounding me for months in the hopes of getting me to enjoy the zone more doesn't work when all I'm doing are dailies and there is nothing interesting on the way to those dailies.

I enjoyed the zone the first time through and unlocking flight sooner would allow me to enjoy it more. That's why, even though FFXIV's zones are more boring in terms of having things to do for me (I don't care for hunts/fates/gathering, maps only with FC, beast tribes depends on the mood), I enjoy them a whole lot more than WoW's zones just in doing MSQ and unlocking flight and then flying around.

At least in WoW, timegating flight for months and months is not meat for you to "enjoy" the zones, it's meant to slow you down from going from point A to point B. That's why they design zones with horrible, convoluted topography that is designed to throw you off of objectives shown in the minimap, that's why they pack every inch of the zone with mobs that can daze you off your mount, etc.

[Tanis_Ebonhart]

Perhaps before throwing fingers and acting like ignoring Blizzard is going to do any good, maybe we should listen to the workers that are protesting and putting their selves on the frontline if we care so much about sexual harassment and other types of abuse inside the game industry? If you're not willing to hear the victims, then stop acting like you're doing something good for them and others aren't.

Simply saying "blizz bad, everyone involved with it is bad!!" doesn't help anyone. You just turn Blizzard into a villain and ignore the bigger and deeper problem: the gamedev industry.



You're seriously comparing a company that actually acted against their own workers with a cult like KKK? Like, KKK doesn't have any nuance, if you join KKK and work for KKK it's...... miles away from working in a video game and suffering because your boss and the industry you work for in general ignore/hide abuse.

You're still supporting Blizzard. Don't twist it to be about the poor employees that chose to stay.

It's disgusting how you are trying to use the victims to protect the predators and trying to shame good people for not sharing your belief.

[Melorie]

You're still supporting Blizzard. Don't twist it to be about the poor employees that chose to stay.

It's disgusting how you are trying to use the victims to protect the predators and trying to shame good people for not sharing your belief.

I'm not "twisting" anything, I'm literally using the words of Activision Blizzard Walkout, who are the victims, that you know very little about and yet doesn't care to go and victim-shame them, talking about how they "chose" to stay there and so they're to blame for the company's crimes too... Crimes that affected them. Who are you to know what are the good employees and who stayed and who didn't? Pff.

I couldn't care less if you don't want to give your money to blizzard, but there's nothing "good" about being an arrogant without empathy that just wants to point fingers and feel like they're doing a lot of good to the situation, please spare me. If you want to have any interest to supporting the victims, you go and read what they're saying instead of placing people into a little hate-corner and calling it a day. Otherwise, refrain from talking nonsense about the situation, because that's quite disgusting.