Yoshi-P Statement on Player Feedback

[Mortex]

Also some of the jobs that are good tuned are so boring it’s insane. Drk for example goes “random bullshit go” every 60/120 seconds and after this it’s just 3 buttons you press to prep yourself for the next burst window.

Or gunbreaker being forced to not play the first hit in the continuation combo he has in his no mercy window in the opener and every 3 minutes or you lose 1 burst strike plus continuation hit for it

[CrimsonGunner]

or what about how whm never getting his potencies/mp costs adjusted to fit thin air change or identical treatment like the other healers did with their own gauge.

all fixed that could have been made already but didn't despite been given feedback however the only things we got were potency adjustments for dps and a promise that more dps will get buff at 6.08 ignoring healers pressing issues yet again.

[Atelier-Bagur]

How is this thread still going? Just kill it already

oh wait...

[Connor]

As someone who has had posts deleted recently, I can verify someone is watching and reading. While they do not listen to everything we say.. and possibly not even MOST things we say, there are too many changes that line up with popular topics here to think there is NO influence from us.

I do want to believe this. Maybe - hopefully - I’m just not seeing the forest for the trees lol. In that it feels like nothing is happening because I check the forums quite frequently, so by the time someone has been reported or banned I’m seeing a new person posting something along the same lines.

And of course I do try and temper my expectations given that the forums are ‘online’, and as such nobody can ever really have complete control over what others (cuz it’s the internet etc lol). So even though there are posts that just don’t seem right (abusive, harassing, etc), that doesn’t necessarily mean that all posts that ‘don’t seem right’ are allowed.

In a similar vein, it can feel like we’re not being listened to when giving job feedback. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re not listening, just that they’re not able to implement things in the way people wanted. Personally the main problem I have with this is that the developers create jobs with a specific ‘identity’ for them in mind but then design the job or encounters in a way that’s completely contrary to their ‘identity’. Scholar and Bard come to mind (though that’s for another thread lol). But just because they’ve yet to find a reasonable answer doesn’t mean they haven’t looked. Or, they simply can’t find it yet. The developers are still humans lol, so they have their limits just as we all do. Thinking about it, it’s unfair to just expect them to conjure an answer to that sort of thing that’s going to satisfy everyone involved.

That’s why I think it’s good to consider this kind of thing as players/posters though, even if it wasn’t aimed directly at us. Even without meaning to sometimes we can have unrealistic or unfair expectations, or we let ourselves believe something without really considering the people on the other side. Or, well, I do lol. It’s not until you ‘air out’ those thoughts that you’ll ever see the mistakes in them though.

[Rinhi]

Questions:
Do you really think people who would mail knives and give death threats about a video game can be reasoned with?

no, but one can try to do so, hence the letter being aimed at them

Is it so farfetched to believe that a statement about verbal abuse and how it's not useful as feedback an can actually be harmful to future creativity is about people verbally abusing developers in general?

I'm aware a lot of people are taking it to extremes (as the forum always does) with "NO CRITICISM!" and "ABUSE CAN BE WARRANTED".. but .. I'd say the founding statement is at least partially asking for people to be less vitriolic in their criticisms or at least not call into question developers creds and dedication.

I don't know why you keep implying that I think it's okay for people to spout vitriolic abuse towards the developers when I've said absolutely nowhere that it's okay, quite the opposite, in fact
but both you and I know that some people, whose (valid) complaints haven't been heard, addressed or just outright ignored, all while it's said that 'they read every bit of feedback', might become upset because they felt that they've been getting lied to - for years, in some instances (for example; MCHs ping issues which have been complained about since what, HW? and only during the EW live letter YoshiP seemed to have learned about it)
feeling angry about being lied to about something you care about is a very human thing, and that's the only thing I'm sympathetic about because insulting someone does frick all for your cause and is more likely to put people off your position


seconding the moderation thing from one of your later posts in response to Connor, though from my experience, it's very much hit and miss
most troll threads are allowed to thrive, people get banned for genuinely harmless jokes aimed at nobody or defending themselves, huge chunks of civil discussions getting removed without a word or reason, sometimes even just deleting one side from it (though that could've been the result of an FC mass reporting posts, so who knows)

[Krotoan]

no, but one can try to do so, hence the letter being aimed at them

I really don't think this is a plea for people to stop being crazy. Cause you really cannot stop that and even less so with polite requests. Yoshi P is a reasonably internet savvy guy I'd say and old enough (and experienced enough) to understand what gamers are like. I honestly don't think he's addressing the fringe crazies here.

I don't know why you keep implying that I think it's okay for people to spout vitriolic abuse towards the developers when I've said absolutely nowhere that it's okay, quite the opposite, in fact

I'm not trying to do that, so if you're taking it that way I apologize and will do my best to clarify in the future. I am not accusing you of even tolerating abuse. I am advocating the ask as I see it, that's all.

but both you and I know that some people, whose (valid) complaints haven't been heard, addressed or just outright ignored, all while it's said that 'they read every bit of feedback', might become upset because they felt that they've been getting lied to - for years, in some instances (for example; MCHs ping issues which have been complained about since what, HW? and only during the EW live letter YoshiP seemed to have learned about it)
feeling angry about being lied to about something you care about is a very human thing, and that's the only thing I'm sympathetic about because insulting someone does frick all for your cause and is more likely to put people off your position

People will get angry and I understand that and I understand why. I just like to restate that I don't think that should ever spill over, which is just because I can personally keep it in or weigh it's actual value against being a human being, so as per usual human standard I don't feel it's all that hard NOT to post or respond like a rager. Failing to do so in this case likely being the product of overvaluing a video game or as Yoshi P. himself said "not seeing the human". Not a counter statement or judgement on your personal values, more of a restatement of what I'd like to see and what I do see.

seconding the moderation thing from one of your later posts in response to Connor, though from my experience, it's very much hit and miss
most troll threads are allowed to thrive, people get banned for genuinely harmless jokes aimed at nobody or defending themselves, huge chunks of civil discussions getting removed without a word or reason, sometimes even just deleting one side from it (though that could've been the result of an FC mass reporting posts, so who knows)

It is incredibly frustrating to see the troll threads thrive, but it's also important to learn from them. They VERY CAREFULLY skirt rules and often use them against contributory posters who seek to "put them in their place" or contribute to moderation. The jokes I've seen result in bans or removal almost always break CoC or forum rules, even if it's just the letter... I say people aren't seeing the trolls actual goals and think they're "clapping back" or getting something up on them when in reality a lot of people simply fall for the traps. Our resident returning trolls are incredibly careful and know the moderation teams methods and standards pretty well by now, a lot can be learned by seeing just how far they go and what things they absolutely will not touch.

[IdowhatIwant]

I still think the team has gotten lazy with content. Despite budget increases and staff increases, the game gets less content and worst content.

While they do not listen to everything we say.. and possibly not even MOST things we say, there are too many changes that line up with popular topics here to think there is NO influence from us.

How do you know they aren't making the same complaints in the jp forums

[Snorky]

I still think the team has gotten lazy with content. Despite budget increases and staff increases, the game gets less content and worst content.



How do you know they aren't making the same complaints in the jp forums

Even after you were asked to stop using that term you continue. Now I know you are trolling and will now ignore your posts completely.

[IdowhatIwant]

Even after you were asked to stop using that term you continue. Now I know you are trolling and will now ignore your posts completely.

Just because I was asked to stop using a term does not mean I have to. It describes what I think perfectly that the content feels lazy as it is more simplistic and there is less of it.

[CrimsonGunner]

I really feel you are being overly aggressive and accusing me of something I am not doing.

then explain what were you trying to do with that comment?
you consider your post not going personal and calling him a troll as positive response and feedback to his claim?

he expressed how he feels about the content ,he didn't say they were lazy but the content being less and they started to get lazy and in no way was it being used as an insult but as a critique.
truth is you can call someone lazy, freedom of speech u know and he is allowed to think that way based on how he sees stuff and conjure based on how the content and changes that were pushed out and to be honest there is good evidence to think that way.

true or not, he can say that ,he did not attack anyone he did not insult anyone ,that is how he feel and the feedback he gave without being hurtful in any way.
if u felt hurt by the word lazy used in any form of content that's something else but none the less that feedback was none aggressive and expressed how he felt the content has been pushed out.