The Alliance roulette is unbearable

[Ronduwil]

And yes, I get some people play the game very casually and that's perfectly fine, but it's an online game and if you're ruining the experience of others because you don't want to put in any effort, it becomes a problem. It reminds me of healers who actively refuse to DPS because "my role is healer"

The roulette is casual play. It's explicitly meant to give those healers who actively refuse to DPS something to do. If you want to play hardcore, then use the party finder to form pre-mades. No one is ruining your experience. In contrast, you're proposing that SE ruin their experience by penalizing them for not wanting to "put in any effort." This isn't a job. It's a game. If you want to be compensated for your efforts, then work harder at your RL job. Quit looking to a game for meaningful rewards. The point of a game, for most players, is to effortlessly unwind at the end of a day that's been nothing but effort.

[Ronduwil]

My experience has been nothing but nier raids. Like the people who have become tired of CT, I have become tired of nier. Thanks to this thread existing, I found I could gear down to avoid my daily nier run. Thank you OP for bringing this work around to my attention. When I get tired of CT I’ll gear up again. But for now, no more daily nier for me.

Exactly this. I get mostly Nier raids, too, and I had no idea that there was a way to opt out of them. I always have extra poetics on hand, so it's hard to resist the temptation to deck myself out in 130 going forward.

[baklava151]

I don't think you understand how that works. Those 23 players from the pool could not potentially have filled your queue, or they would have queued into your raid first. The reason your Nier raid is taking forever to fill is that most players at that level are currently running Endwalker premades. I queued into two Nier raids and only one CT raid this week alone. I don't know why you have to be so resentful over a level 50 player poaching potential candidates from you. It's a first-come-first-serve system. If you queue for a Nier raid, the roulette will start filling your raid with qualified candidates. Of course, no one is going to do that because there's no point right now. In contrast, players will queue for CT raids explicitly because it's an integral part of the storyline at this point.

To be clear, you're describing two different scenarios here:
1. This thread's original complaint cited a scenario where a player was queueing for the roulette and was finding themselves in CT more often than not. If, in fact, the trick of equipping 130 gear in order to deliberately queue into CT raids exclusively was as widespread as suggested, then the opposite phenomena would be observed: all the CT raid slots would be occupied with exploiters and the character in 560 gear would find themselves funneled into the higher level raids more often than not. This suggests to me that the real issue is that no one is using the duty finder to queue for Nier raids. They put up an ad on the Party Finder instead.

2. The scenario you just described where you explicitly queued for Nier. In that case, your raid would admittedly take longer to fill because other players were deliberately making themselves unavailable to it. In this case, I contend that the current system is better than alternatives. Assuming SE does what you want, two things are going to happen: Fewer players are going to queue period. The ones that do queue will simply abandon the duty as soon as they see they've queued into your Nier raid and try their luck again in a half hour. You're not going to improve anything. You'll just end up pissing even more people off.

You're right, I was thinking about it wrong, however if I flip it where the exploiter queues first and then I queue up for Nier, it's still a negative for me. And to be clear, I'm only about the exploiters, I'm not begrudging the people who haven't unlocked later raids/aren't high enough level, after a certain point I'm accepting that CT will be more common than the other raids for various reasons. However it could be made slightly less worse.

Your first scenario doesn't make sense to me, it doesn't follow that this being a widespread issue (and honestly I can't say how major it is, but I do pretty often load into an ARR raid and see someone naked suddenly gear up) means CT would only be filled with exploiters, the people in 560 gear can still be pulled in with them. And afaik PF isn't that common for alliance raids other than joke runs. As for your second I would agree with what other people said and scale the rewards from the roulette based on the level of the raid.

[Dewslam]

Similar arguments were made regarding making the cutscenes be unskippable in MS Roulette. Look how that one goes...always has people doing it, most of the time nobody new to the instances. Though, due to the vast difference in EXP from one to the other, people tend to leave the shorter one more often.

Yet any time I get castrum in my MSQ roulette one or two randos drop immediately, willing to eat the thirty minute penalty rather than do the thirty minute unrewarding dungeon.

[DerpyWhiskers]

I think OP is imagining a problem that doesn't exist. I've been doing lots of Alliance Roulettes since EW dropped while leveling a couple new jobs, and on my mains. I get the same 2 or 3 roulettes all day every day regardless if I'm lvl 60 in lvl 60 gear, lvl 70 in lvl 70 gear, lvl 80 in lvl 80 gear, or lvl 90 in lvl 90 gear.

[Juzjuzz]

Being unlucky and getting a lot CT or Nier is fine (everyone knows that CT will be the raid we get most of the time), but letting players choose what they get isn't. That's the whole point of the complain. It shouldn't work that way.

I'm all for letting ppl do what they want, but if it forces others into even just a little bit it's not great imo.

At this point if players absolutely want only CT make a roulette for it and let the players who want to play at higher lvl get a roulete too. I don't think it will be that harmfull for newer players, as CT will always be quick and easy. But XP from nier or stormblood raids should guive good rewards for the effort.

[Izar_Chillen]

Move CT raids to the MSQ roulette and problem fixed.

That is the fix end of discussion . Its stunning that its not considering its part of ARR and since 5.xx its now mandatory and the finale of 2.0 are both in there own MSQ roulette , so CT should be in there too.

The alliance raid roulette then could be void and onwards , and all would be better if the CT was placed into the MSQ daily

[Iscah]

I don't think you understand how that works. Those 23 players from the pool could not potentially have filled your queue, or they would have queued into your raid first.

Do we have a full understanding of how the DF algorithm prioritises which queue to place people in?

For all we can see, it might just look at the person who has been waiting in a direct queue for the longest time, and assemble a party to suit the duty they are queuing for, regardless of whether those people might be more suitable to help the second person waiting for a party.

If so then it might sweep a number of NieR-eligible people into Syrcus Tower then shrug helplessly as the next party it needs to compile is for Paradigm's Breach.

I heavily suspect that the algorithm might have been designed back in ARR when they had no thought of it needing to deal with varying layers of expansions and game progression.

That is the fix end of discussion . Its stunning that its not considering its part of ARR and since 5.xx its now mandatory and the finale of 2.0 are both in there own MSQ roulette , so CT should be in there too.

The MSQ roulette is not designed to include all MSQ duties, or later dungeons like the Antitower would be in there too.

The roulette – and most importantly its rewards – are weighted around what it does contain: a guaranteed long eight-man dungeon with unskippable cutscenes. It has high rewards because it's intended to be compensation for your time.

Throw in the possibility of getting Syrcus Tower instead, and even if people don't/can't game the system to get it, the relative volume of people queuing directly for the CT raids (repeat queue for relic progression or glamour farming) over Castrum/Praetorium (clear for story and never look back except for roulette) would do nothing but steal away people from the roulette's original purpose.

[Absurdity]

I think OP is imagining a problem that doesn't exist. I've been doing lots of Alliance Roulettes since EW dropped while leveling a couple new jobs, and on my mains. I get the same 2 or 3 roulettes all day every day regardless if I'm lvl 60 in lvl 60 gear, lvl 70 in lvl 70 gear, lvl 80 in lvl 80 gear, or lvl 90 in lvl 90 gear.

That's not how this works, you get those roulettes because someone in your CT alliance raid is most likely cheesing their ilvl. It doesn't matter whether or not you do it, it's very likely someone else doing it and forcing you in there.

[Mika_Zahard]

That is the fix end of discussion . Its stunning that its not considering its part of ARR and since 5.xx its now mandatory and the finale of 2.0 are both in there own MSQ roulette , so CT should be in there too.

The alliance raid roulette then could be void and onwards , and all would be better if the CT was placed into the MSQ daily

Because castrum and praetorum are full parties that have 2 tanks in a 2/2/4 comp, unlike CT which is listed on a 1/2/5 with 2 other groups. So making the queue determine whether it is or not a dungeon or AR will be difficult.

And using a system like CLL/DR is awful because you may not get a single tank at all.