Final Fantasy 14 Players trying WOW?

[linayar]

Quicker, not necessarily better.

The goals are alike in both cases; you can't get flight in either game until you're done with their respective zones. It's merely a difference of WoW considering the open world still a real part of the game even after you've finished the zone's main questline. After several hours of doing world content across the expansion's zones, you have your flight because that's about the point at which they determined you've experienced all even those who like open world stuff would care to experience in full and you're effectively "done" with those zones. In both cases, flight is essentially a post-content bonus, not considered a necessity for while said content is still relatively new or in play.

I do not think having flight makes the open world not a real part of the game.

As for flight being a post-content bonus, even someone who only does the MSQ in FFXIV will still go through the open world for patch MSQ content. And there are other things you can do besides the MSQ, like side quests, FATEs, hunts, guildleves, beast tribe dailies, gathering, and maps. All of those activities can benefit from having flight unlocked in all zones either by the last MSQ of the .0 patch or shortly after, depending on how focused you are at unlocking flight, for the rest of the expansion.

So, it's not a post-content bonus, but an optional post-(.0) MSQ bonus in FFXIV.

For WoW, there is also still more to do after unlocking flight, but I can also see why it can be considered a post-content bonus in terms of having to do a lot of content before unlocking flight and maybe moving on to a new zone, but that makes it less rewarding as a bonus in my opinion.

Agreed. It's odd, then, that they decided to move from exactly that (alternate tools and supplementary systems, such as rockets, hooks, and gliders -> rentals and limited flight -> unlimited but slower fight -> unlimited and full-speed flight) to what we see now. It was from their having already had and done all that that I suggested those gradations.

From what I've heard, they originally did not have flying in WoD. If true, not having more than a switch after an extensive requirement might make sense if they actually did not want flight in the game anymore.

I'd have to greatly disagree. Not every WoW zone has incredible design, but atop what all aspects of visuals alone by which the better among WoW's zones may already rival the better among XIV's, there's far more interesting use of topography and, outside of scaled areas (or prior to their becoming entirely player-scaled), mob diversity.

I don't know if we're necessarily in disagreement here, but I'm just saying that I personally need more than that to go to a zone. And WoW locks flight behind all of the reasons that I would go to the zones.

Interesting use of topography and mob diversity can be shown off during the leveling process of questing. And once you've unlocked flight, mob diversity can still be appreciated by having appropriate quests while topography can be appreciated on a grander scale from above.

I disagree, so long as the zone or world affected is threatening by ground but not by air, as is typically the case initially in new WoW zones. I'd of course prefer to see them simply add aerial threats, but such is easier said than done. (And could you imagine XIV attempting that, given that its Z axis is basically a non-factor and mobs able to hit you from some 40 yalms below?)

Outside of having aerial threats, I think being grounded during leveling is more than enough to show off the threats in the ground. Any further threats can be focused on the nature of the quests themselves as you'll still go down to do the questing. And with WoW being more willing to just have you go on a quest to kill various enemies on the ground, having flight doesn't remove those threats as you still need to engage with them to complete your quests.

I'm also not sure how or why PvP would factor into it. In WoW, one simply chooses to or not to partake in world PvP. Before that was the case, moreover, flying mounts (though sometimes a boon for those disadvantaged by massively lopsided faction populations in a given zone, if there was cover enough to go unseen) were known almost solely to cheapen any form of world PvP. Since PvE objectives would require grounding, flight in the open world with PvP unlocked (as on the old PvP Servers) always carried a "third-party" or "ambusher's" advantage, since one could immediately attack from their 310% movement speed flying mount at the nearest moment of opportunity but the defender could not similarly avoid this threat without being held at a stalemate, unable to leave their mount. Given the power of movement skills and CC in the game, the existence of mere ground mounts did not necessitate the same stalemates nor advantage higher gearer, burstier players (as to make them unable to see reprisal by most classes due to how quickly they can engage, kill, and escape) in the way that flight did. Since Burning Crusade, flight has led to more kills and yet fewer actual 'fights' so to speak (a smaller portion of kills contributing to 'Honorable Kill' counts) and generated to generally lower opinion of the game's World PvP. It forgoes holding, threatening, or taking ground, navigating around one another, etc., in favor of punishing whoever first partakes in PvE elements.

I think that's an acceptable risk for open world pvp. If people want more fair fights over mere killings, then that is what instanced pvp should provide (ignoring gear (and perhaps level?) differences since WoW may not normalize instanced pvp like FFXIV if I'm correct).

But now with warmode, they can just have it be a flightless mode if they really don't want flight being a factor in open world pvp.

My apologies for reordering your comments, but I wanted to address them as coupled as my response is interlinked.

I agree that so long as flight exists, seeming to suddenly un-learn how to fly is... well, bull, unless there's an obvious difference in the environment as would affect flight.

For that reason, when I first heard that HW was to have flight I --in naive, pipedream fashion-- hoped that we'd have literal (air/aether) currents that'd supplement a stamina-based flight system. You might, for instance, take a sprinting start before diving off a cliff into a deep ravine, catching a current that passes down and through the chasm, refilling stamina even as you glide or hover (chocobos' obviously aether-assisted flapping). In such a way, topography would still be relevant and, since you'd have to figure out where these (air/aether) currents flowed and how they shifted over the course of the day or different weather patterns, there'd still be an element of progression: there'd be the real, player knowledge component and then perhaps a further, subtle artificial "attunement" bonus by which stamina costs could be decreased and max speed increased with time spent in the zone or along its currents, etc. It'd neither require suspension of disbelief as our mounts repeatedly forgets how to fly just because this zone is arid and has no river instead being arid and split by a river, etc. Instead, flight would only be as different as the zone's topography and a bit of arbitrating randomness (especially if air and aether currents aren't quite one and the same).

But alas.


Same, though locking it behind the extra few sidestory quests seems a little odd to me, even if I understand that it aids the questmakers' ability to slightly push their curation upon the players. I'd still love some actual flight physics and the aforementioned unlock system, though.

With FFXIV, what you suggest might be too complicated for the game to handle. And I do prefer ARR/Azys Lla style of flight unlock, but I won't complain over the game wanting to invite people to do side quests.