What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Rokke]

FF7R is also attempting to break what FF7 has done.

You say this like its a good thing

[Divinemights]

You say this like its a good thing

It is a good thing.
Original Aerith death is so artificial and you know it

[Theodric]

It is a good thing.
Original Aerith death is so artificial and you know it

'Artificial'? How so?

I was under the impression that it is rather widely considered to be one of the most shocking and iconic video game scenes to date.

There's other JRPG's - such as Legend of Dragoon and Shadow Hearts - that dared to kill off members of the main cast during the course of their story and it wasn't done just for shock value but because it tied into the story itself.

[Divinemights]

'Artificial'? How so?
I was under the impression that it is rather widely considered to be one of the most shocking and iconic video game scenes to date.

If you have played the original Japanese version and you can see she is very out of character there.
The entire "she need to die to join life stream in order to counter Meteor" is just an aftermath made up story because gaming industry do not have DLC technology yet.
Ancient in the original Japanese text clearly indicating they have ability connect to life stream without death.

I'm not entirely convinced that such a theory holds, given that a number of posters commenting within this thread and others have a join date that suggests that they are, in fact, not just riding the recent tide of 'refugees' from WoW.
I don't think many people are arguing in favour of black and white morality, either - but more so actual stakes for the protagonists and lasting consequences.

Yet, every complaint is showing they want an epic end fight with Zodiac (big evil dude) and Scion death (one of key character death)
It is same poor WoW style of storytelling copy and paste into their expansion.

I disagree. I'd attribute the storytelling in previous expansions to be in line with previous Final Fantasy games, though the franchise has never really shied away from meaningful consequences. Both the early and more recent games have examples of major characters dying, settlements being wiped off the map and so on - whilst not limiting such things almost exclusively to the antagonists.

Yet through out entire FF franchise none of the main cast is killed off except Aerith's artificial death (FF7R is retcon her death)
FF12 has highest review among NA community and it does not need to kill one of their main cast isn't it?
FF10 retcon Tidus's death and not to mention to entire FF13 series with Lightening.
You don't need artificial death to tell a good story.

Such is subjective, I believe. WoW's storytelling had many flaws but many of the characters felt distinct to me at the height of their respective story arcs. The Scions, meanwhile, strike me as very bland. They don't often express much agency of their own and often exist in the present day to fawn over the player character.

Is it?
WoW's story telling has been bad since TBC and only was ignored by fanboys because Blizzard was at their peak.
There are countless complaints over the lore in past years.

[KizuyaKatogami]

If you have played the original Japanese version and you can see she is very out of character there.
The entire "she need to die to join life stream in order to counter Meteor" is just an aftermath made up story because gaming industry do not have DLC technology yet.
Ancient in the original Japanese text clearly indicating they have ability connect to life stream without death.



Yet, every complaint is showing they want an epic end fight with Zodiac (big evil dude) and Scion death (one of key character death)
It is same poor WoW style of storytelling copy and paste into their expansion.



Yet through out entire FF franchise none of the main cast is killed off except Aerith's artificial death (FF7R is retcon her death)
FF12 has highest review among NA community and it does not need to kill one of their main cast isn't it?
FF10 retcon Tidus's death and not to mention to entire FF13 series with Lightening.
You don't need artificial death to tell a good story.




Is it?
WoW's story telling has been bad since TBC and only was ignored by fanboys because Blizzard was at their peak.
There are countless complaints over the lore in past years.

Just as theres been complaints with 14’s lore for the past years. One of the things you literally bashed WoW’s story for is something 14 did this very expansion, so why the double standard? As for main cast, you seem to have forgotten a main cast member that dies in ff5. Or in FF4. Or in FF type 0. Or in FF15. Just to name a few. FF12 opens up with two fairly prominent character deaths that are what moves the story forward. Not to mention they do actually kill off 2 characters who join your party for a time. It’s really not a good idea to try to use past ff’s as examples because most of them take risks that 14 just doesn’t at all. I’ve played all of them, i know how they work. I know what happens in them. Hence why i can tell you death and consequences and destruction is a very clear staple among them.Its not so much asking for a scion death every expansion as it is to have stakes and consequences in the story. We were literally facing an apocalypse that not even ancient god-like beings survived. The planet got decimated. Yet we end up literally perfectly fine. Same goes for ShB where we fight against said god-like beings and only win the first fight due to plot armor and an asspull. That does not make a good story. All of the other ff games ive mentioned with actual deaths and consequences show correctly that no matter if youre the hero or not, youre not invincible. You're not going to always win. 14 has been lately, we always win. We can do no wrong, everything goes our way no matter what. Them creating a few nameless npcs just to be killed off doesnt change that. Not to mention that was literally at the most in two areas. While thavnair and garlemald are suffering we're having a lunch date.

[Divinemights]

Just as theres been complaints with 14’s lore for the past years. One of the things you literally bashed WoW’s story for is something 14 did this very expansion, so why the double standard?

Refresh me a bit because it have been years for FF12, which main playble character you are referring dead at the end? Vaan? Ashelia? Balthier? Fran? Penelo? Vossler? Please don't tell me you are ferring to Reks and Ralser because they are plot device characters, not main characters.

Shadow from FF6? All of sudden he decides to suicide there is sure out of no where. Are you counting that?

FF Type O at beginning you already knew everyone are going to die and you are just playing to see how they died. I don't see this is a good example.

Which main character died at FF5? I don't recall any 4 main died at the end. Please do not count those temporary characters. They are always considered as plot devices.

[ReynTime]

Refresh me a bit because it have been years for FF12, which main playble character you are referring dead at the end? Vaan? Ashelia? Balthier? Fran? Penelo? Vossler? Please don't tell me you are ferring to Reks and Ralser because they are plot device characters, not main characters.

Shadow from FF6? All of sudden he decides to suicide there is sure out of no where. Are you counting that?

FF Type O at beginning you already knew everyone are going to die and you are just playing to see how they died. I don't see this is a good example.

Which main character died at FF5? I don't recall any 4 main died at the end. Please do not count those temporary characters. They are always considered as plot devices.

"These deaths do not count because I said so".
And if you don't even know about Galuf in FFV I don't think you have grounds to stand on in this debate.