Thread: The current State of Casters 6.05 edition - balancing discussion

You know what, deal. Give me a stance on Red Mage that locks out Verraise but gives a permament damage buff and we can talk. If mobility is irrelevant once everyone has learned how to move, raising is irrelevant once everyone has learned how to not die.

I'm tired of this "prog caster" bullshit some people are trying to push. Summoner belongs below Red Mage until it requires more than one brain cell to play.

Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Hey, one thing that's worth noting is that when he or the dev team talks like this, it's rarely comprehensive. So NIN, WHM, PLD, and other jobs that are hurting may still get some love.

They also do read the forums and listen to player feedback so my hopium is that this thread trends enough for them to notice what we'd like for changes for Casters.

Kinda repeating myself but I can't stress enough I want them to take back that mobility to give me back the power I lost.

I was a pretty bad Summoner when I did the last Eden tier and I would have done better on Red Mage but I wanted to give it a go knowing I didn't like it, Didn't optimize my rotation and clears like I usually do. Now I do like it and I get that most people hate the new Summoner because its "easier" than Dancer when the reality is optimizing it is just really bad. How many time the game didnt register my Searing Light on the 1st GCD and its just straight up gone for the full opener burst window lol. Well, it definitely feel like a more authentic Summoner but Summoner never needed this amount of mobility.

I just feel if they decide to buff Black Mage and ignore the Summoner situation that I won't play it anymore even if I like it. Actions are often worth a thousand words and if nobody plays Summoner maybe they'll listen and have a dev actually play Summoner and have him hate it like us.

Originally Posted by Azuri

You know what, deal. Give me a stance on Red Mage that locks out Verraise but gives a permament damage buff and we can talk. If mobility is irrelevant once everyone has learned how to move, raising is irrelevant once everyone has learned how to not die.

I'm tired of this "prog caster" bullshit some people are trying to push. Summoner belongs below Red Mage until it requires more than one brain cell to play.

Okay my dude... Except in speed clear RDM won't be used over Black Mage and red mage should be behind in damage because of infinite res and Magick Barrier. You gain utility by trading power. You don't trade power for mobility. That's their fundamental flaw in design. "Requiring 1 brain cell to play" is very specific to you. On a causal standpoint when you dont think about optimizing, yeah, just press buttons and you're good. When you optimize your runs and realize you'll never several different BiS to make the best out of SMN, then it doesn't become a 1 brain cell job anymore.

Right now my whole rotation is unsynced with my party on SMN. It can be fixed with a massive amount of Spell Speed. Spell Speed I won't have right away but requires me a second BiS.

Before you just troll, how about you provide constructive criticism and provide actual feedback so we can take you seriously.

Originally Posted by Azuri

raising is irrelevant once everyone has learned how to not die.

Uhh... it is.

Originally Posted by Aikaal

I'm not so sure on Speed clear. You,d bring a Reaper, Monk, Bard and then Black Mage. Still, No Summoner to be found.

They don't balance around speed clears so that's a moot point.

Originally Posted by Aikaal

Except in speed clear RDM won't be used over Black Mage

I invite you take a look at what Mazz Maryoku has been doing in speeds on RDM.

Originally Posted by Aikaal

You don't trade power for mobility.

Tell this to MCH, DNC and BRD since about ShB. At this point in the game, you do indeed trade power for mobility. We can argue if this is a fair decision or not but it is one the dev team has already made.

Originally Posted by Aikaal

When you optimize your runs and realize you'll never several different BiS to make the best out of SMN, then it doesn't become a 1 brain cell job anymore.

You can do in-depth optimization on most jobs. Your precious SMN isn't in any way special.

Originally Posted by Aikaal

Before you just troll, how about you provide constructive criticism and provide actual feedback so we can take you seriously.

I would have been more willing to have a constructive argument if your whole post didn't try to downplay all of SMN's advantage while upplaying that stupid "Red Mage has infinite rez" bullshit. Right now it just reeks of "my SMN should have more DPS than RDM!11!!".

Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

I think people really underestimate the mobility of old summoner. Erm, including you, sorry. Remember pre-EW, we got 8 GCDs of pure mobility every minute we could put just about anywhere (did need a few for weaving but still). The exception was going into bahamut, in which case we only got 4 GCDs because we had to hold the other 4 for bahamut, but that was also in addition to other insta-casts and we could always draw out DWT a bit in a worst case, emergency-mobility scenario.

Mmm, well I did play 1 tier on ShB Summoner and yeah their mobility was just fine. They don't need more. In any case, ShB was balanced but didn't really reflect what people believed to be a real summoner. Now people see the current summoner as a real summoner and they play it. Not only it is casually easy to play but it feels fun.

But yeah, unless I confused my words, I don't think I meant to say that Summoner mobility was bad prior Endwalker. They did improve it in Endwalker which if it's the reason their power was gutted, it's a really bad reason

Let us hope that SMN doesnt suffer from success like WHM but yeah, that's how I see it right now.

I find it strange that Summoner has all these instant casts, but it’s pretty well known that pure Summoners in previous FF games had the longest cast times for massive AoE damage.