Revert the Ninja change please, thanks.

[Kelg]

I don't know what to tell you. Imo Having 4 mini assassinates locking you in place and awkwardly inching you into the enemy just doesn't feel good. It was clunky and I'm glad its gone.

[Quyn]

I am also glad that it was changed. The forced gapclosers were terrible.

Now, if we could please have the taken ten seconds of huton returned to us and raiju to not break on weapon skill usage.

[Caldra]

Oh boy, I have to give my opinion to this:

I love the changes and the ability to choose if you want to attack melee or use it as a gap closer with the raijus!
Most of the time, I use the melee version, yes but I love it, that you can quickly close distances with the other raiju, not losing any dps and you don't have to use shukichi!

There is no reason for anyone to complain that you lose the raiju stacks if you use your 1-2-3 combo, because if you do, you deserve to lose it!
Because there is no reason not to use the melee raiju instead!

I also did the math and Ninja does 30 potency more dps with the changed raijus now! And you don't get animationlocked and you don't have to spam raijus 4-6 times in a row!
You also generate more ninki because you use your 1-2-3 combo 1 more time which generates 10 more!

There is absolutely nothing negative about these 6.05 changes! You just have to adept and accept the changes!

[SaberMaxwell]

Do throwing daggers lose you your raiju stack?

[Cyrexs]

Do throwing daggers lose you your raiju stack?

No, throwing daggers don’t cancel it.

[Satarn]

That's... not at all optimal in the first place. What of your Hyosho Ranryu and Suiton? Why would you ever be using 3 Raiton in a row?

You should have two charges of Ninjutsu every Trick that you spend on Raiton and every other Trick you also get TenChiJin, which results in another Raiton when in singe target rotation. So yeah, nearly all of the Raitons you ever use are close together. Suiton is never used inside TA obviously and Hyosho spends the extra Ninjutsu you get from Kassatsu.

So yeah, 4-6 was exactly accurate.

But, again, what is the issue? The gap close from melee range binds up at most a half-second of movement; you have 77%+ left of your GCD in which to prepare for it. Your alternative is to simply have used another melee range skill anyways, subject to nearly all the same issues. Instead, now your level 90 skill has been halved in its frequency and you've lost available capacity, often wasted or no.

The important difference between a regular melee skill (like Fleeting Raiju) and a gap closer, is that the former 1) can still be executed while you need to stay at max melee range to not die/not fuck up a mechanic and 2) can be executed while bound by a mechanic.

As for losing frequency, that is purely subjective, but a lot of people hate spamming the same button a lot in a small burst window, so that's actually a big plus for them gameplay-wise. Just because it's new and flashy, doesn't mean I want to see it 4-6 times in every TA.

----

I find it rather curious that people wanting the previous Raijus back both say that it's so bad we lost the utility of a gap-closer (we didn't? you can still use Forked, where would you ever need 4-6 gap closers on top of Shukuchi?) and also that Forked is useless now because Fleeting is just superior (nah, the gap-closer can be handy sometimes, also how is Fleeting superior but simultaneously we didn't need it?).

NIN's dps output is a completely separate issue though, they should definitely increase the potencies, but at least the job feels way more enjoyable to play after the changes imo.

[Shurrikhan]

...

Yep, completely my bad. I was thinking of them as literally back-to-back, rather than ever possibly having intervening Hyosho or TCJ casts (though I earlier said Suiton just because that --into Meisui-- would be between TCJ's Raiton and the following Raiton; idk, dumb of me).

On the whole, I think it the annoyance of a gap-closer may be a ping thing (Californian here), but yeah, I can see why people would get tired of that outright replacing 2 whole Aeolian combos or the like.

It just felt like a weird change compared to simply, say, allowing multiple Raijuu Ready stacks to exist simultaneously and for the effect not to be purged by other weaponskills, perhaps with some AE/AC interaction, as then it could at least act as a modulating combo for alignment and/or a freer gap-closer (though, yes, with 2 stacks of Shukuchi, that's hardly necessary). At 3 non-Kassatsu Ninjutsu casts per minute, one spent just to ready TA, those 6 Raijuu in the opening minute and every other thereafter, or 4 per its TCJ-less minute, were the only Raijuu in said minutes, as compared to ~15 other GCDs per minute. That hadn't seemed like an overly large or therefore disturbing portion to me, but I can see why it would to others.

NIN's dps output is a completely separate issue though

I wonder how much of NIN's shortfalls is due to community issues of fearmongering over remembered days of "mandatory NIN" or some players still overvaluing rDPS on principle (despite its actual precisely calculated values still placing NIN far lower than it, historically and by what criteria have been most reliable indicators over time, deserves to be)... We've recently seen Bards, BLMs, and SAMs get far nearer to where we've expected of them, with SAM regularly staying within the top 4 rDPS for Extremes and Bard entering the span from time to time (though that's only when in high-performing parties), but it doesn't seem like NINs have seen that climb. I'm not sure there's much, if any, player error left to correct; the difference may just really be too damn low of potencies.

[Equitable_Remedy]

Revert the Ninja change please, thanks.

Request [DENIED]

[Cyrexs]

Yep, completely my bad. I was thinking of them as literally back-to-back, rather than ever possibly having intervening Hyosho or TCJ casts (though I earlier said Suiton just because that --into Meisui-- would be between TCJ's Raiton and the following Raiton; idk, dumb of me).

On the whole, I think it the annoyance of a gap-closer may be a ping thing (Californian here), but yeah, I can see why people would get tired of that outright replacing 2 whole Aeolian combos or the like.

It just felt like a weird change compared to simply, say, allowing multiple Raijuu Ready stacks to exist simultaneously and for the effect not to be purged by other weaponskills, perhaps with some AE/AC interaction, as then it could at least act as a modulating combo for alignment and/or a freer gap-closer (though, yes, with 2 stacks of Shukuchi, that's hardly necessary). At 3 non-Kassatsu Ninjutsu casts per minute, one spent just to ready TA, those 6 Raijuu in the opening minute and every other thereafter, or 4 per its TCJ-less minute, were the only Raijuu in said minutes, as compared to ~15 other GCDs per minute. That hadn't seemed like an overly large or therefore disturbing portion to me, but I can see why it would to others.



I wonder how much of NIN's shortfalls is due to community issues of fearmongering over remembered days of "mandatory NIN" or some players still overvaluing rDPS on principle (despite its actual precisely calculated values still placing NIN far lower than it, historically and by what criteria have been most reliable indicators over time, deserves to be)... We've recently seen Bards, BLMs, and SAMs get far nearer to where we've expected of them, with SAM regularly staying within the top 4 rDPS for Extremes and Bard entering the span from time to time (though that's only when in high-performing parties), but it doesn't seem like NINs have seen that climb. I'm not sure there's much, if any, player error left to correct; the difference may just really be too damn low of potencies.

Hopefully we see a potency increase for nin next patch.

[Dustoid]

I don't know what to tell you. Imo Having 4 mini assassinates locking you in place and awkwardly inching you into the enemy just doesn't feel good. It was clunky and I'm glad its gone.

Totally agree, the abilities should definitely not be reverted to their 6.0 state for this reason. The problem with the 6.0 version was the forced gap closer + having to do 2 full GCDs after every Raiton, and the 6.05 changes address both issues. However, it's a shame to lose a fun 2-step combo, and a bit awkward to instead have 2 nearly identical abilities on the action bar, is it not?