Tank healing is to high

[Visanis]

You just like to be contrary don't you? On literally EVERYTHING.

Only on things that require you to be at least slightly more advanced than a single cell organism.

If it's about being allowed to afk or be dead while other people do your job and carry you then they are all for it.

[AFuzzyMu11in]

Maybe it’s my league mindset, but I think it’s fun to hard carry. Top/Mid feeding? Aka Dead healer and dps? Me and the other DPS hard carry the feeding team and get even more glory/satisfaction from knowing we are good enough to carry bad players. I think carrying is a reward not an insult.

I play a lot of vayne.

[Visanis]

Your "league mindset" has no place in FFXIV or any MMORPG, it's a completely different genre than a MOBA.

That's like saying "I have a stealth mindset so I should be able to sneak past enemies and one shot assassinate them from behind because that is satisfying to me". Doesn't really work does it.

[ssunny2008]

I play a lot of vayne.

now it means if THEY are good and know mechanics they can carry.

Holding some overtuned buttons on cooldown has nothing to do with "being good". Especially since you can eat 3 aoe´s at once as tank without any def and you´ll still stay alive. It has nothing to do with skill, when a class ,or better role scales way too hard in its stats. You don´t even need Tenacity to be that unkillable, the mainstat for tanks...
I´ve carried enough groups in this game and i never felt "look how good i´m", because it doesn´t need any efford as tank and is not possible on DPS. Only healer might cause such a feeling when things go nuts hard. But spamming rezz or LB3?
Has been another thing back in SWTOR when i duo´d the last 15% of a savage-raidboss on a DPS class with my healer due to kiting, aggro-swapping and the precise use of everything we had. That has been skill-play, but being tank in FF14? Common...

(And yeah... Vayne with 3 kills or just arrived in the lategame... needs so much skill....)

This is not a good comparison, tank healing didn't just suddenly turn a challenging game into a something you can't fail. Combat in this game has been getting progressively more boring for quite some time, nor has there been much difficulty in the vast majority of content for years. Tanks current healing capabilities didn't just create some massive shift in the gameplay experience.

Such arguments are the real issue.

You create a bigger and bigger gap with such an attitude. "It´s nothing new.", yeah ofc tanks has been broken before already. Now they´re even more broken and that´s ok?
It happens step by step and ppl are like "Ahhh, it´s ok, it doesn´t impact the gameplay so much." every time. And you see where it brought us, just because ppl have been "ok" with all the changes 10 times in a row.

There have been far, far, far too many situations in the history of this entire game where a Tank using their Invuln has prevented a 24 man raid, much less other content, from being a massive, colossal waste of time for everyone involved.

Definately looks like invul needs to stay, otherwise ppl would waste their life-time in online-games, especially MMORPG´s. x)

[Dogempire]

Who cares it makes your job as a healer easier? I love the fact that I can get koed on a mechanic on a boss I don't know and watch from the floor as the paladin and reaper solo it with me and the bard dead. One scholar and one bard dead used to mean a wipe now it means if THEY are good and know mechanics they can carry.

Sure, but not everyone likes being carried through a boss. If the healer dies and they kill the boss from 50% to 0 anyways then I think it's reasonable to question why you're even needed when you don't have any impact on whether the party wipes anyways

[Kalaam]

There is a pretty stark difference between the tank downing the last 10% of a boss by doing the mechanics well, using their mitigation and invul smartly and saving a clear, and just soloing the boss from basically start to finish. If you can do it from 50% to 0, you could likely do it from 100 to 0, some specific mechanics aside

[Dracosavarian]

Definately looks like invul needs to stay, otherwise ppl would waste their life-time in online-games, especially MMORPG´s. x)

No matter how much you rail, kick, and scream, Invuln abilities will not be leaving the game.

[OdinelStarrei]

You just like to be contrary don't you? On literally EVERYTHING.

I have this person blocked because their posts give me a legitimate headache and I refuse to entertain people who have no desire to have their opinions challenged, but the rest of you continue to quote their posts, and I see them anyway. If any of you have been in General Discussion, you'll know that it's besieged by trolls constantly. The thing with those people, is that they obviously post really controversial/factually incorrect information with the intent of getting a rise out of people. On their mains, they're probably entirely legitimate players with working brains.

Thankfully, the role forums have mostly been free of this kind of stuff, and for those who truly don't know how the game works, they are given an opportunity to learn just how stagnant our version of the holy trinity has become, and probably become a more confident and better player from it.
But every once in a while, we get someone like this.

If you read this, you "75 percentile SCH" with consistently atrocious takes and useless personal anecdotes, please block me so ideally, we can interact even less, thank you. I have no idea how Sebazy or Hyomin or really anyone from the healer forums tolerates you and your bad faith excuses for reasonable discussions. Square Enix job designers listen better than you do.

With that being said...

Stop lmao, the only reason that was possible is because of 2x Arcane Crest and 4x Improvised Finish not because of tanks.

If you're going to talk at least be knowledgeable on the matter so follow your own advice and stop with the spreading of nonsense.

Nothing I said was wrong!

I am AGREEING with you in the next post you made. I said, it shouldn't be possible regardless of composition, because the core underlying fact is that it's a trident of design failures.

Why are the boss auto attacks and "tankbusters" so weak and infrequent/tank recovery options so plentiful that tanks don't even require even a single healer resource to upkeep?
Why is the raidwide damage and bleed DoTs so ineffectual and that it's practically irrelevant in the face of a few mitigation sources and an Arcane Crest?
Why is Arcane Crest so powerful and on such a low cooldown? How is this even fair to Shadeshift, or Dragoons in general, who have literally no defensives (Life Surges are not defensives)
Why is the healer design so overwhelming skewed into "solving other people's mistakes" vs having real, noticeable impact on a farm experience instead of being relegated to +1% party buff and "we need to have a healer for mechanics 1st, healing 2nd"

Pigeonholing six specific DPS, regardless of what they actually are, still doesn't remove the fact that the healer role is entirely absent. It's one thing to solo tank, or solo heal an encounter, but it's another to completely abandon the healers all together in expansion launch endgame, so quickly, that's my issue. The fight itself is only part of it, the overarching design is the problem, and it's a problem that invincible tanks are just going to proliferate after the progression experience.

What's the common complaint on healers right now? There's nothing to do, unless an emergency happens and it's salvageable(which it often isn't), otherwise it's 21111111 with the occasional, and better implemented to their credit, oGCD weave. So instead of giving the healers things to heal, like they've been asking, they get to deal with eternal tanks circle-supporting each other, an encounter design team that can't make things interesting for healer mains after progression because of gear creep, and DPS who can do their jobs for them if you stack a certain comp in our current endgame. I understand a bit of the discontent, and frustration at the lack of their agency in encounters, even if this is a unorthodox situation.

So rather than saying "Tank healing is too high!" Maybe instead what needs to be said is "Encounter damage is too low/non-threatening!"

And to continue another side discussion...

And just to address a side discussion from earlier:
I think most of the situations you've described for Oblation can be summarized as: TBN is on cooldown, and every little bit helps, so why not? But I think you'd have to find some very specific HP thresholds at 10% DR for Oblation to be the deciding factor in a player living or dying from a targeted attack.

And if we're talking about using the charges to shield two players simultaneously, then really what we're getting at is a situation in which TBN, Reprisal, and all of the other job specific raidwide mitigation tools are on cooldown. And for that matter, Sheltron/Intervention have effectively been operating on a 2 charge system from baseline, and both actions are considerably more useful now. So this isn't even breaking novel ground in terms of flexibility.

I can't argue that Oblation has no value at all. But then again, the original iteration of Shake it Off also had 'value', but there was blood in the streets over that one because it was too niche. Well, that and the fact that WARs demand efficiency in their actions.

Would I trade Oblation for a second charge on TBN and a second storage stack of Dark Arts? Probably. Would I trade Oblation for Arcane Crest? Ye- er, no, get your grubby paws off my actions! Would I trade Oblation for a 10% bubble that generates gauge/Dark Arts when used on a tankbuster and plays a little shattering sound when it breaks? Definitely. I agree that it looks cool. That's pretty much it.

This is exactly why I said it needed to be buffed. The position of the skill is alright, but the effectiveness is lacking. Had someone last night using it on it's own on cooldown like a Rampart and was wondering why they kept dying. It honestly feels like someone had a good idea, made an animation for it, then shelved the actual design of the ability until late in development, or it was radically altered and had to hash something together in a week. As in, I know they can do better than this. Something similar to Arcane Crest, at least in terms of rewarding defensive mitigation with more defensive mitigation, is a healthy decision, one that is entirely absent on DRK right now. While the shift to 2mins vs 1mins have decreased my desire for additional Dark Arts stacks for aDPS padding, at least that would've been an easy 1-to-1 improvement in comparison to the esoteric, nuanced, and probably placebo improvements the job got outside of pure numbers. And that's coming from me, the person who thinks Blood Weapon stacks would be an expansion-level change that I have been unironically seeing in my dreams lately, I'm that tilted about it.

Even when things begin to hit much harder in the savage tier, will my theories actually prove to be honest raid contributions, or just hot air to justify the extra two buttons on my hotbar? I hope for the former, but prior experience is leading me to the latter conclusion. But outside from buffing Oblation, I have no real hope anything else will substantially alter, it's been too long with things in this state for me to believe otherwise. And even that minor comfort might not pan out with TBN still being lauded on the JP side.

Feels really odd to be playing the "worst" job in the entire game. Hope you're enjoying RPR though! Got mine to 90, had a blast playing it the entire time. At least something you suggested (Ingress/Egress) for DRK got put in the game in some form. Happy coincidences.

[ApolloGenX]

I'm actually playing and enjoying WAR for the first time.... I like it

[ASkellington]

So rather than saying "Tank healing is too high!" Maybe instead what needs to be said is "Encounter damage is too low/non-threatening!"

This. Bring DRK's self healing up and scale the damage up to a reasonable level. Its clear we have the tools for higher incoming damage. I don't see why we don't have it.