My humble take on new SMN

[Duskane]

can't put all your eggs in one basket
gotta save some stuff for next expac

[zcrash970]

New paint, same problems with added dull gameplay

[Shuuli]

I like how people argue about old vs new again. We can have things from both versions and have a mix ya know. OR, they can also introduce new things never seen before and make it more interesting???

I completely agree that the job is simpler than any other job in-game at the moment. I also agree that we push the same buttons and it is boring as hell in my opinion... After you run a 8-10 farm parties you will surely understand what I am talking about, even if just a bit.

I disagree that we need Bio back however. I think adding 1 poison button will do not make this job any different than it is now...

For example: I really liked some of these ideas. (And again, maybe not all of them)

It would be interesting if summoner had a primal "toolbox" of say six summons to choose from and had to set up their three charges each cycle for different effects of 10 seconds apiece, say:
-Instant cast summon with lower damage.
-High damage hard-cast summon for situations where movement isn't needed.
-Summon that heals or buffs the party.
-Summon that tethers the player on an X distance chain but greatly buffs damage.
-Summon that burns the player in exchange for large damage.
-Summon that improves move speed at a damage penalty.
-Others...use your imagination.

That way fight knowledge and decision making would be rewarded while maintaining a very low skill floor for players that just want to slot in three instant cast summons and pew pew pew.

[Rolder50]

can't put all your eggs in one basket
gotta save some stuff for next expac

Counterpoint: Machinist in Shadowbringers, vs Machinist in Endwalker.

[Ayden]

Carbuncle
- remove base pet (no need for Carbuncle to keep leaving the field)
- able to use Radiant Aegis and Searing Light anytime
- Carbuncle favors (or not)

Demi
- change Ark Morn and Revelation back to 2 times per trance.
- give Phoenix a Deathflare equivalent dmg spell
- make Rekindle a new button which can be macroed

[Duskane]

Counterpoint: Machinist in Shadowbringers, vs Machinist in Endwalker.

that said frame work is there has potential lets hope they dont MCH it up

yes.
/10char

[ServantNaoya]

I'm sorry Summoner isn't to your liking and the old dotruin mage was more your liking. I too have been a Summoner since ARR and one in XI and will fight you tooth and nail before ever going back to pre endwalker designs.
This summoner needs some extra work, but the current design works, It feels summoner, and it doesn't have lag as its core gameplay mechanic.
XI style could of worked fine if they didn't build ARR to copy wow tab target combat with limited abilities, a pet based summoner could of worked if their AI actually worked and their servers didn't have to 360 the world for confirmation every time you press a button.
I am more than satisfied with the current design.

If you'd read what I actually posted, you'd know I never petitioned to have old SMN back, no matter how much I preferred it. I only want the current SMN to be made into a full class that feels on par with the other classes. Nobody ever pretended that old SMN wasn't janky as all hell. It was a mess, but it was a mess that I loved. Am I sad to see it go? Yes. But if it means more people get to enjoy SMN, then this is the direction to go. That doesn't mean people can't criticize it; constructive criticism can only improve what's already there.

snip

Please stop pretending I have it out for you or am antagonizing you. I didn't even know you prior to this, you literally painted yourself in that corner and got defensive over nothing, and I couldn't care less. Do what you want, enjoy what you enjoy.

[CKNovel]

Regardless it does not change the fact that this cluster of “scorned” people have nothing but the same anecdotal evidence they claim is meaningless of their own at best. They forever removed legitimacy from their arguments whenever they went on their rants about how basically anything other than their enthusiastic forum posts is meaningless feedback to them, a belief that could only be possible if they somehow believed themselves more important than everyone else. "Honesty" has left the building entirely. There are improvements that can and should be made, but we do not need to go back to the previous state of things to do so.

What if... Your opinion and arguments were unpopular and due to your agressiveness with uses of insults and trying to ridicule the opposition by picturing as babies made you unpopular?
It really falls in the "nothing personnal, kid", your arguments and choice of vocabulary works against you, that's it.

You are welcome to this forum and to debate but watch your vocabulary and treat people how you want them to treat you.

Again, you want poisons and bio? Wait for Necromancer. You want to micromanage a tiny pet? Wait for limited job Puppetmaster to arrive. What Summoner could use now are primal themed ogcds and as others mentioned, seeing the Phoenix combo return would be lovely. You know, fits with the fact that we’re actually Summoners now. Furthermore every job could stand to get its later abilities earlier, Summoner included.

On which basis a "Final Fantasy" Necromancer uses bio and dots?
So far, only FF V has a Necromancer job with only one poisonous ability named Evil Mist.

But again, your argument about Rydia having Bio not being relevant works once again against you.
It's only "one spell" among many! Where does it says that Necromancer should use dots and poisons? Poison is only one of many strengths, not their speciality.
Necromancer is supposed to raise the dead and make them fight. That's the case in many games and board games, poisons is never their core.

See how ridiculous this kind of argument gets? Because it can be shaped in any forms thanks to "It's not their core strength", "they're not supposed to do this".
Warriors aren't supposed to be white mages, Paladin aren't supposed to throw magic swords (Holy knight does), Sage is supposed to use all kind of magic, not casting greek spells.
It works for any jobs, any situation, anything at all really. And you are not the one deciding who is supposed to do what.

[aveyond-dreams]

Imagine being so entrenched in 1 singular game that you cannot conceive of the notion that Necromancers, Warlocks, and other dark mages are the ones who are commonly associated with poisons and curses. This isn't rocket science, but I guess around here it must come across as a shocking revelation! It is common knowledge that the original Summoner we got in this game was built off a mishmash of WoW's warlock and several spells stolen from 1.0 Thaumaturge. And the result was a job that failed to deliver mechanically and in terms of its actual class fantasy.

We get it, you're mad about no more poison mage (and pre-Shb Machinist apparently, which is more than enough to send a shiver up my spine) and you won't be quiet till you get one. That's fantastic, but as it stands now I'd much rather resources go into another limited job instead because that crowd isn't nearly as demeaning or prone to months-long tantrums as the "victims" of the supposed Summoner rework are. 8 years is a great run, don't you think? Certainly longer than anyone could possibly conceive of given the state of the job. But alas, it is time to smile brightly once more and move on. You can choose to continue providing me entertainment if you want, seeing as how I'll voice opposition to any and all attempts to steer the job back to themes and mechanics that have failed in such spectacular fashion. That crowd even had an extra 2 weeks to make their peace with the job. What more could one wish for?

Furthermore, I have to point out that Paladins=Holy Knights. The job is literally called "Knight" in japanese. Holy sword attacks aren't a stretch at all when it comes to that job. Sage in this game is certainly a departure from anything we've seen in the entire series-and yet people love it because the class actually does cool things and has wonderful controls. It is absolutely possible to be "unique" and good but old summoner was neither of those things. A copy pasted class lifted from another game and given a title that it absolutely didn't deserve until recently. To the surprise of absolutely no one outside the affliction warlock echo chamber, it didn't go down so well at all.

I'm not interested in whether you like me or not. I care about whether the fact the class that I like is actually decent, which as of now it is leagues better than it used to be. Some things could improve, definitely. But they will not improve for the better if we start taking in feedback from a certain crowd that would rather play with poison magic as opposed to actual summons.

[CKNovel]

Imagine being so entrenched in 1 singular game that you cannot conceive of the notion that Necromancers, Warlocks, and other dark mages are the ones who are commonly associated with poisons and curses.

Necromancer is supposed to raise the dead and make them fight. That's the case in many games and board games, poisons is never their core.

Reading is important.
Poison is one of their many tools like Earth magic is one of many of RDM's tools at their disposal.

It's not about liking you or not.
It's about your poor choice of arguments and agressive vocabulary.
Also the MCH remark is out of topic and a personnal attack, even after all my posts you don't even know why I'm criticizing MCH...

Can we get back to the main topic before you change its course again to distract everyone?