Requesting Information on Jobs: Preparing for 1.21

[darkstarpoet1]

he is agreeing with us more or less... he's just saying for someone ranking up... they wont even get the satisfaction of getting all 5 abilities at once....
but the point is, yea... WHM is a CNJ and CNJ has always been a white mage
the two are not job/class... they are synonymous

no they won't, but it's really nothing more than getting an ability while doing a class quest while ranking up. just use conjurer for example the jobs quests for getting the abilities is nothing more than having a conjurer quest at rank 30, 35, 40, 45, and 50 and the conjurer itself getting the ability.

i wasn't saying they were wrong, but just more of pointing out those quests would have been just as well put in as additional class quests since a white mage is just a conjurer with additional class specific abilities. there's no change in what it does at all since being a healer is all a conjurer does.

[Jinrya-Geki]

The Convert ability for BLM alone will undoubtedly make a huge impact on their ability to cast more spells. More spells equals more damage, and Convert also goes toward alleviating the MP cost issue. And this is only taking into consideration ONE of the new abilities that BLM is getting.

So yeah, let's wait and see how things work before we call the whole system bunk, heh.

Yeah we can wait. Just hope it's worth it.

[darkstarpoet1]

Yeah.. the other problem that concerns me is people trying to level. What if one of the more useful spells/abilities is R30 or 35?

It'll be no big deal to us current players, because we've gone how long now without them. But when the "fresh" servers happen with 2.0, I'm afraid that some skills might be required (by the community)--like in XI, if you got to whatever level without the scroll for an important spell, some people might complain until you just get a rep.

After the new players make their own servers/expectations, will people expect someone to leave after X level, level another job to 15, do the job quests, and then level more?

Something I liked about XIV was that even though having other jobs leveled was beneficial, I wouldn't get kicked for not leveling a job I hated (i.e. I didn't like BLM in XI, but WHM was my main. To be honest I stayed /anon with BLM10 until I hit WHM30 and unlocked SMN, then WHM/SMN ftw). Also, in XIV there was no "YOU DON'T HAVE THIS?! WTF!" like when a WHM25 joined up without Cure II in XI. We also don't have to roll our eyes and ask people to leave when they don't have a scroll of Haste.

Not that I think this is an imminent issue, but I'm sure you guys that read the forums know that I (over)think of random sh** like this. >.>

now this one i can agree with. the only thing is say you hit 30 con in an exp party i don't see it coming down to you have to leave to get that ability for white mage to rejoin the party. the reason being is in exp parties the mobs die so fast and sp comes so quickly even just running class abilities i don't see that one ability making or breaking an exp party.

granted, if you ran con up to 50 and tried to join a high level event like ifrit i could see people wanting the main healer to have the white mage quests completed for those scenarios.

[Mychael]

now this one i can agree with. the only thing is say you hit 30 con in an exp party i don't see it coming down to you have to leave to get that ability for white mage to rejoin the party. the reason being is in exp parties the mobs die so fast and sp comes so quickly even just running class abilities i don't see that one ability making or breaking an exp party.

granted, if you ran con up to 50 and tried to join a high level event like ifrit i could see people wanting the main healer to have the white mage quests completed for those scenarios.

Yeah like I said it's not a huge issue. It's just that for all of us, we do a chain of quests, in order. For new people, I'm afraid it will be more like... level 25-35, stop to get new spells, repeat. It was no big deal in XI because everything was slower, but in XI it will feel stupid to stop just to get a skill. Admittedly, I don't see any reason to need any new skills for exp parties, but that's why I said it would be more of an issue for thew newcomers--they won't have the bias of "we didn't ever need them before." But for some--invincible and benediction, especially--I could see it happening, even with us. Two less wipes/deaths, sounds worth it--especially since I don't anticipate any two hour recasts coming (though it could happen).

P.S. Sorry! >,< I've edited this post like a thousand times.

no they won't, but it's really nothing more than getting an ability while doing a class quest while ranking up. just use conjurer for example the jobs quests for getting the abilities is nothing more than having a conjurer quest at rank 30, 35, 40, 45, and 50 and the conjurer itself getting the ability.

i wasn't saying they were wrong, but just more of pointing out those quests would have been just as well put in as additional class quests since a white mage is just a conjurer with additional class specific abilities. there's no change in what it does at all since being a healer is all a conjurer does.

I agree with you there. The only reason I think SE chose to give us these jobs (instead of just adding the skills to the class quests) is because these will be skills that future classes cannot use. If Conjurer gets summoner (bad example probably), then SMN won't get Esuna, Benediction, or Regen. If they were just CNJ quests, then the future SMNs would b*tch about "WHY DIDN'T I GET THESE?!" All I was saying was that wheras Rydin had mentioned that the additional abilities would be like leveling further as whatever class, that it wouldn't even have that lustre for new players. It'll be part of the levelling process, not an additional bonus.

[HokSeven]

I agree with you there. The only reason I think SE chose to give us these jobs (instead of just adding the skills to the class quests) is because these will be skills that future classes cannot use. If Conjurer gets summoner (bad example probably), then SMN won't get Esuna, Benediction, or Regen. If they were just CNJ quests, then the future SMNs would b*tch about "WHY DIDN'T I GET THESE?!" All I was saying was that wheras Rydin had mentioned that the additional abilities would be like leveling further as whatever class, that it wouldn't even have that lustre for new players. It'll be part of the levelling process, not an additional bonus.

It's not only that. You are just focusing on the abilities here in term of jobs. What of armor and weapons? I think that the AF is job specific and not class specific. The CNJ can not use the WHM armor (as far as I know). Which SE can really play good with why you need to be a WHM in a party and not a CNJ (maybe armor gives 10% more healing? Thus making it more viable to be a WHM in a party)

This is just a WHM example, you can think and pick more examples from other jobs

[Mychael]

It's not only that. You are just focusing on the abilities here in term of jobs. What of armor and weapons? I think that the AF is job specific and not class specific. The CNJ can not use the WHM armor (as far as I know). Which SE can really play good with why you need to be a WHM in a party and not a CNJ (maybe armor gives 10% more healing? Thus making it more viable to be a WHM in a party)

This is just a WHM example, you can think and pick more examples from other jobs

While you're absolutely right, my personal preference is that the defining differences should be independent from gear. While gear can make a huge difference (i.e why WHM's Cure II/III could be higher than any other job in XI), I feel like a naked WHM should have a notable advantage over a naked CNJ. They do, in abilities, and that's why I seemed to focus on them.

I just had an idea, though--what if the Job Stone we equipped gave +10% Healing Potency, PLD job stone gave +10% Defense, etc?

[Rizon]

Gladiator and Paladin are the same thing... Paladin uses Gladiator Skills and IS for all intents and purposes Gladiator so leveling up as Paladin and Gladiator is exactly the same thing, you learn the same Gladiator skills. You just have to quest for the Paladin skills later.

I believe that some people are under the misconception that you can level both jobs and classes. It has already been explained elsewhere that you can only level <earn Exp> Classes. The corresponding Jobs will follow along. The only improvements to jobs are the quests unlocking skills and JSE.

[Zahak]

I believe that some people are under the misconception that you can level both jobs and classes. It has already been explained elsewhere that you can only level <earn Exp> Classes. The corresponding Jobs will follow along. The only improvements to jobs are the quests unlocking skills and JSE.

I'm just waiting for the threads to pop up day of update saying "OMG I CAN'T LEVEL UP DRG SINCE MY LANCER IS 50!? D:< KBDRJGRGKRGDRKKIQUIT"

[NoctisUmbra]

I'm just waiting for the threads to pop up day of update saying "OMG I CAN'T LEVEL UP DRG SINCE MY LANCER IS 50!? D:< KBDRJGRGKRGDRKKIQUIT"

lol it's gonna happen, despite them having been very clear about how that works from the very beginning.

They can make a Topics post on lodestone pertaining to jobs, how they will work, and every detail that we know and don't know yet in it and right after the patch goes live we'll still see a handful of people raging with disappointment.

[Elexia]

Though coattailing on that fact, the only reason it won't be leveled by normal means is because people cry about having to grind.