New summoner is unacceptable

[Riusvell]

Sure not every class needs to be complex. But it still stings to have one of the few that WAS complex be dumbed down to possibly the simplest in the game. Just like not every class needs to be complex, not every class needs to be simple and easy. And yet FF14 has been trending to making ALL of them simple and easy.

Sad part is at least the simple and complete classes offer more feedback regarding Gameplay than this mess.
The fact that the former "simple" and "newbie friendly" caster class somehow has gotten more complex and actually offers good feedback in terms of it's gameplay... compared to this ""successful rework"" that just offers no signal if you're even doing something well... Yeah, no. That ain't right.

You're just carelessly flinging around spells and if you make it have healing potencies, you basically have a healer.
Like you can just ignore all your gemstones and go straight to the Demi after spamming ruin 3, like for real? You legit can't mess up any mechanic that the job possesses because it has absolutely no mechanics.
I ain't asking for much, I'm asking for a job to be complete and it's gameplay to actually convey that you're doing something right.
The bold part being VERY important.

Though I feel like I'm talking to a wall because many people harp on the fact "OH BUT NOT EVERYTHING HAS TO BE COMPLEX" or this "BUT IT ISN'T WOW WARLOCK ANYMORE". Guys, people have legitimately expressed how or why it's really not a good rework and it's not because of those reasons that keep being repeated. Also, if we bring in the excuse X did it first, then nothing should be allowed to be created as almost every possibility has been used in games already.

[Shougun]

There is

/petsize "all" "small"

This will make everyone elses pets, including your own if you have them appear small. This is handled on a personal level. The size of someones summons on your screen is yours to change, they cant affect it. I actually have a hello macro when i join a dungeon to give out that command to people

But, and I haven't tried this so please educate me otherwise, I can't make your small and mine normal / large?

They need to add one more "others". I don't want mine small, just other people's lol.



At least that is what I was trying to get at with the whole spell effect comment. You can choose to have your spell effects full, but not other people's.

[Miles064]

Sure not every class needs to be complex. But it still stings to have one of the few that WAS complex be dumbed down to possibly the simplest in the game. Just like not every class needs to be complex, not every class needs to be simple and easy. And yet FF14 has been trending to making ALL of them simple and easy.

Been thinking this for a while now but, this is one of the things WoW style talent rows(not the old trees) is supposed to address. For mage, Incanter's flow was a passive that went from 5% dmg buff scaling up to 20% then scaling back down to 5%. You had no control over it so you could mostly ignore it. You could try to line up cds at the 20% but it ended up evening out anyway. rune of power on the other hand had a huge 40% spell dmg buff but you had to cast it, stand in it, and it only lasted like 8 seconds or something. Rune was the better dps option if you could handle it but flow was still solid as an easier option. Mirror image sucked though so hopefully SE can avoid stuff like that.

[Brandedblade]

I feel like a broken record when I have to keep saying this. BUT IT WILL NOT BE BUILT OFF OF. People constantly said the same shit about ShB MCH, ShB DRK, and Healers since SB, but if anything they've only taken away or barely changed anything from these classes rather than built off of them.

WHAT YOU SEE NOW IS WHAT YOU'RE STUCK WITH, FOR GOOD. Unless there's a masssive shift in dev philosophy by the FFXIV team or the JP side throws massive shitfit on par with the male viera stuff. It's not a base to be built off of, it's the full damn job and the "mch" of casters.

GOOD IM GLAD I'M STUCK WITH THIS, PRE EW SUMMONER WAS A CONVOLUTED MESS.

[RocciaSolida]

The new raids aren't even out yet and I'm already burned out with the job, it feels like a level 50 job at 90; if I wanted to play Physical Ranged I would've picked Bard.
Just play BLM (if going double caster or your static is fine with losing a raise) which is perfect this expansion, I don't know how but SE managed to improve it even more.
No fight is gonna make SMN entertaining or challenging.
Flashy job and nothing else

[Edewen]

But, and I haven't tried this so please educate me otherwise, I can't make your small and mine normal / large?

AHHH i understand now. Yeah it is problematic. They really should just have it as a toggle right below battle effects in the menu as most wont dig for console commands

[Shougun]

AHHH i understand now. Yeah it is problematic. They really should just have it as a toggle right below battle effects in the menu as most wont dig for console commands

No problem, its better to be helpful anyways- which you were. I appreciate it

Definitely agree console commands is not the most ideal way to do settings lol.

[Averax]

People in this thread are very salty.

I've played since ARR, each incarnation of summoner was better than the last. We've gotten more emphasis on summoning and less emphasis on dots. This was the natural evolution of SMN, and i've enjoyed leveling it immensely. ARR SMN was a hot mess.

[Chocobits]

Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but hasn't FF Summoners always felt like an Elememtalist but with Summons? You called upon Shiva for ice, Ifrit for fire, etc. Obviously an MMO can't just have a job where you Summon pets and let them do literally everything, so when new Summoner summons the elementals they bestow upon us some of their power for our spells. To the best of my knowledge Summoner has never had damage over time spells in their toolkits, and those DoTs I hated because it never felt like I was really playing a Summoner. If y'all want DoTs, ask them to introduce Green Mage or something.

The fact that the rotation is way easier is just icing on the cake. Many DPS jobs feel like they're only getting more complex these days, and I welcome not having to default to Red Mage if I want to play a job that doesn't require planning everything out ten abilities in advance based upon whatever the boss is doing.

Final Fantasy XI would like a word with you. When you summon avatars, you can use them to heal the party, cast buffs, enfeebles, and attack enemies with strong physical or magical damage. Ramuh can stun all enemies in range. Garuda can cast large party heals. Ifrit grants attack boosts. Diabolos grants an AOE MP restore over time. So yeah, FFXI summoner is the best iteration of summoner the franchise has ever had, with the summoner controlling the avatar's actions and the avatar dealing all of the damage.

[Shougun]

Final Fantasy XI would like a word with you. When you summon avatars, you can use them to heal the party, cast buffs, enfeebles, and attack enemies with strong physical or magical damage. Ramuh can stun all enemies in range. Garuda can cast large party heals. Ifrit grants attack boosts. Diabolos grants an AOE MP restore over time. So yeah, FFXI summoner is the best iteration of summoner the franchise has ever had, with the summoner controlling the avatar's actions and the avatar dealing all of the damage.

FFXI, imo, is a FFT SMN with pet mechanics. Which tbh is pretty neat. Due to how FFXIV is balanced a lot of the choice probably couldn't fit, but even now I wish our SMN had more summons. It would be neat to stuff like shiva, ramuh, odin, alexander, etc. FFXI is certainly a special sort of beast when it comes to balance (or lack there of lol).

At level 90 it is pretty epic spectacle though, so I'm not saying it out of pure complaint. Just like that far off dream that would be neat if they could ignite somehow. Maybe after every X gem primals (ifrit, titan, garuda) you temporarily unlock Shiva, Levi, and Ramuh and have to pick one of them. Disrupting the rotation into something like Ifrit, Garuda, Titan, Levi, Titan, Garuda, Ifrit, Ramuh, etc, etc. I'm not sure. It's hard to be so tight with balance and streamlined properly for mechanics that FFXIV needs and also offer a bunch of unique options....