MONK is to confusing / annoying of a class now

[Shurrikhan]

It´s nothing else than what you did pre Blitz or on other classes. You adjust to what is coming and as more often you´ve played a fight, you´re going to get used to it thx to the strict pattern. Imo Blitz might feels new to you or others, but it´ll get stale pretty fast and in any fights with any delays or downtimes, you´ll find a solution and just repeat it.

If I give you a new tool by which to more precisely and/or frequently mitigate an old problem, you've got new gameplay.

It does grow stale, but so does any other mechanic, no matter how complex. Blitz is at least a very good, very solid addition, in its basic concept.

With the current Blitz system and 40s of playing 123 between, you can´t really grow.

Neither the current PB nor Blitz (which is not per 40s, nor all-but 40s per minute, nor 123 in between, unlike most melee and blue-dps) is preventing Monk's toolkit from growing, either. GL wouldn't have stopped Monk from having more mechanics before and Blitz isn't going to preclude such now.

[ssunny2008]

If I give you a new tool by which to more precisely and/or frequently mitigate an old problem, you've got new gameplay.

It does grow stale, but so does any other mechanic, no matter how complex. Blitz is at least a very good, very solid addition, in its basic concept.

I´m not saying Blitz is bad at its core, but it´s overall a bad addition IMO. It would´ve been something different with HW, but not yet, not at this point.
We lost GL and all we had left have been positionals with GCD´s. Instead of just adding a new mechanic, we lost everything with Blitz. So far we lost more than we got and Blitz itself just add 3 Burstskills to MNKs kit. PB is splitted in 2 3-key charges instead of 1 6-key charge. The rest is the same.
On top Blitz is nothing but a Meikyo-Mudra-Mix somehow put into a rotation you´ve played for ages, but you can only use it half the times you can use Mudra with 1/3 of its skills meanwhile 1 is useless anyway.

- It´s nothing real new which add to the the gameplay, just 1 burstskill every 40s.
- It´s something we already have on other classes. (Homogenization at its best)
- We lost more than we got back.

I´ts solid yes and i woulnd´t be mad about it as addition to ALL 6 positionals. But given as it is, it isn´t spectacular or something i can see a bright future with. And i don´t even want to get more stuff added to Blitz, otherwise i would play NIN you know?! MNK´s niche concept has always been "the fast positional heavy class" and it should return like this.

Neither the current PB nor Blitz (which is not per 40s, nor all-but 40s per minute, nor 123 in between, unlike most melee and blue-dps) is preventing Monk's toolkit from growing, either. GL wouldn't have stopped Monk from having more mechanics before and Blitz isn't going to preclude such now.

I´m not talking about MNK´s toolkit, i´m talking about the skillfloor and skill-ceiling. Positionals always gave you the advantage to grow, to get a better DPS, to switch up your gameplay a little bit based on the given content. Blitz is blitz and without positionals, the only gain relies on the Demolish timer and how to play around it in Solarnadi-phases.

[Shurrikhan]

I´m not saying Blitz is bad at its core, but it´s overall a bad addition IMO.

We'll have to agree to disagree then.

I've defended the hell out of GL over the years, but Blitz did not cost us GL. GL was already dead and gone.

Heck, even by the start of Shadowbringers, GL had no real effect. Unlike its ARR iteration, it no longer allowed us to be tuned at BLM+ levels of damage so long as we maintained it even in complex fights (see T9). It didn't compensate for its own cost as it did in HW, when TK was tuned higher relative to n GCDs. It wasn't usable as a resource, as it was in 4.3. It was merely vestigial.

Nor did Blitz cost us of our "Fists of X" stances; they were stillborn from the start and it would have taken significant reworks to the whole kit, around said Fists of X, to breathe life into them. (There are means of reviving those stances I'd have loved to explore, but... that's a story for another time.)

And, frankly, if I had to choose between GL even in its best iteration (4.3) and Blitz as a single concept to build upon, as much as I will forever champion 4.3 Monk... I'd have to say that Blitz is the better base concept.

And let's be clear: PB->Blitz plays nothing like Meikyo, Iaijutsu, Inner Release, Delirium, or Ninjutsu or whatever other 3-part burst phase thingamabob you may wish to mention... due to its context. Before actually trying it in depth, I was worried about the same, since I generally despise homogenization. I needn't had been worried.

I´m not talking about MNK´s toolkit, i´m talking about the skillfloor and skill-ceiling. Positionals always gave you the advantage to grow, to get a better DPS, to switch up your gameplay a little bit based on the given content. Blitz is blitz and without positionals, the only gain relies on the Demolish timer and how to play around it in Solarnadi-phases.

Nor did Blitz cost us our positionals. If positionals were seen as uniquely an issue for PB, PB would have --in effect-- gotten the Gluttony treatment, guaranteeing positionals over its 3 hits. And having another tool with/around which to optimize Demolish and Twin is... exactly what Monk has been about since ARR (though via ToD/Fracture back then, or later your TK timings in 4.3, before being dead in the water for 5.x because of SSS's tuning).

It's honestly weird how much downtime it still has even with Raijuu. Feel like I'd need a faster mudra CD to really fill things out, combined with perhaps the Raijuu stuff being oGCD instead of GCD.

Well, yeah; Raijuu only varies up 2 GCDs per minute after your opener, since you should still be using one mudra per minute each on Suiton and Hyosho. Raijuu doesn't even add APM, since Forked and Fleeting are both on the GCD.

[ssunny2008]

We'll have to agree to disagree then.
I've defended the hell out of GL over the years, but Blitz did not cost us GL. GL was already dead and gone.

Blitz didn´t cost us GL so far but positionals for sure, which is a completely unneccessary change so far.

And as i said a year ago at the GL change. Have you ever considered, that SE tried to cater all the MNK mains? It´s not only the casuals who complained at each expansion about something. TK rotation, Anatman Opener, useless Fists, whatever it has been, ppl complained. We had tools to maintain GL in downtimes, we had/has a decent disengage-tool, which is unique so far. We do even made use out of 2 fists with GL4. The only issue which lasted has been a dumb cutszene in any 4th savage fight. This was even only an issue caused by no safespots, which was not even a big deal since PB was up.
But everywhere still complaints about MNK. On one hand the casuals "GL mimimi, being punished more than on other classes because i play bad mimimi, positionals i could ignore in any content but savage mimimi!" and on the other hand the mains "This is useless, that is useless, even those unique skills with a rare use are useless, and look at MNK´s dps."

Yes we just got some dumb skills to maintain GL and MNK stood the same otherwise. But that was indeed the biggest issue MNK had and it got fixed somehow. SE tried to cater all the MNK mains here for sure, but did the complaints stop? NO! Do they even stop yet? NO!
We lost everything and it got replaced with a new mechanic, which is nothing but a poor Mudra. SE added 3 burstskills as GCD´s together with some new and old animations to MNK meanwhile deleting everything else. The so called "MNK mains" obviously didn´t got catered enough, so SE gives af about them and caters casuals who don´t even care about MNK at all. Ppl which are sooooo glad, but don´t even touch it before finishing 10 other classes with 3 buttons, a little pet or just without any circumstances aka RDPS. It´s actually the same shit which happened to SMN this expansion. Does it looks cool? Yes... Is it a good gameplay? Hell no.

So many classes got fck´d over the years because of complaints over complaints from both sides and in the end everything has become super braindead to cater ppl who don´t give af and don´t even try. (Because it´s soooo important to not being punished for badplays, or that a carbuncle has a delay, or that a fairy has a metastance, that tanks have been able to do damage, or not... and now we´ve a worldwide AST star GG WP!)


EDIT: I´ve seen lots of SMN´s, dozens of BRD´s, RPR, SGE and other classes. But just about 3 times a MNK when 2/3 has been bad ones. Yeah yeah... the new MNK seems to be a gamechanger, when even less players care about it than before. I really don´t care about Blitz, but positionals needs to come back. And at this point, stop complaining about the last 10 DPS difference.

[Shurrikhan]

Blitz didn´t cost us GL so far but positionals for sure, which is a completely unneccessary change so far.

What part of Blitz, a skill that requires no more positioning than we had before to set up and even rewards you with a positional-less GCD, would possibly require the loss of positionals? There's no significant added cognitive load beyond deciding when to prep them, which is no different than RoF. Remembering whether you're doing the All-Same, All-Different, or Any Blitz is insignificant.

No. They are separate. The devs got rid of positionals because they wanted rid of positionals. Such was out of touch with their established job-users, obviously, but it had nothing to do with Blitz.

[meowmaou]

in the end everything has become super braindead to cater ppl who don´t give af and don´t even try.

I want the dude(s) balancing MNK to just totally fucking lose it one day and say "you know what, fuck you guys" and make everything hard as balls again.
The players they keep dumbing down old jobs for just zoom to whatever's new and shiny every expac, anyway.