New summoner is unacceptable

[Rolder50]

While I still enjoy the rework, I will agree that Ruin 4 seems rather tacked on in its current implementation. Also, Bahamut and Phoenix could use further distinction in their function.

For example, allow the player to decide between summoning Bahamut or Phoenix. Have summon Bahamut provide 4 stacks of further ruin, and give Phoenix abilities cast-times with some additional benefit to promote its use.

The problem with this is that players would math out which does the most damage, and then exclusively use that summon.

[SeverianLyonesse]

While I still enjoy the rework, I will agree that Ruin 4 seems rather tacked on in its current implementation. Also, Bahamut and Phoenix could use further distinction in their function.

For example, allow the player to decide between summoning Bahamut or Phoenix. Have summon Bahamut provide 4 stacks of further ruin, and give Phoenix abilities cast-times with some additional benefit to promote its use.

I've seen someone propose that resurrection be retooled as something only available in Firebird trance. Which I think has some potential.

Make Firebird even more support-oriented (or at least have more support options), and keep Dreadwyrm just all-out damage burst.

I'm not sure how I feel about limiting rez access to a certain phase when SMN now seems locked into phases more than any other DPS job (I think?), but given that DPS really shouldn't be required to rez anyway it might be a fair compromise to just give them the narrow *potential* to be clutch.

Also, my OCD brain thinks the summons are perfect as they are. I don't need to summon weirdly interpreted Hindu gods (Shiva and Ramuh); the fact that SMN is pretty much limited to mythical beasts feels like a huge refinement of the job. I think given the direction it has taken as a "gemomancer" the only thing I think it wants at level 100 would be a big finisher in Diamond Dust. No summoning of Shiva required--because the SMN themselves is channeling as a nod to Ysayle.

[Memoranda]

I've seen someone propose that resurrection be retooled as something only available in Firebird trance. Which I think has some potential.

Make Firebird even more support-oriented (or at least have more support options), and keep Dreadwyrm just all-out damage burst.

I'm not sure how I feel about limiting rez access to a certain phase when SMN now seems locked into phases more than any other DPS job (I think?), but given that DPS really shouldn't be required to rez anyway it might be a fair compromise to just give them the narrow *potential* to be clutch.

Also, my OCD brain thinks the summons are perfect as they are. I don't need to summon weirdly interpreted Hindu gods (Shiva and Ramuh); the fact that SMN is pretty much limited to mythical beasts feels like a huge refinement of the job. I think given the direction it has taken as a "gemomancer" the only thing I think it wants at level 100 would be a big finisher in Diamond Dust. No summoning of Shiva required--because the SMN themselves is channeling as a nod to Ysayle.

Kind of this, in regards to the two major summons. I really don't have an issue with swapping between the two, in particular because they're both so cool. Although I do especially love summoning Phoenix, that cry every time in manifests is just... yes. With the rework I feel like I can summon both of them more often whenever I feel like it instead of during really specific points.

[NyannCat]

I like it. I'm very happy with it. I hope they don't listen to you.

[SieyaM]

Having played Summoner much more for the past day, and being able to finally log in with some reliability, I can say I am really happy with it. I am sure plenty of people are going to talk down to me about how simple it is but I feel busy enough that I'm not bored. There is a little down time in the rotation but that can easily be filled in later, although it should have been filled in now. Ruin IV is a little awkward but I find it useful as a AOE cast when moving with the tank for trash pulls, or to fill in that few seconds when your trance isn't ready but you've burned through your other summons. My major complaints with it are only cosmetic really, such as having no ice/water element but having two fire aspect summons in Ifrit and Phoenix. Also I don't know why SE insists on making casters enter melee range for abilities but I am really not a fan, all healers save one have PBAOE spells and now SMN has a PBAOE with Ifrit at 86.

[Rolder50]

Been leveling it up a bit on the side with fates and oh buddy staying awake is difficult.

[GinsterUnit]

I like it honestly.

[Memoranda]

Anyone have any idea how much of new Summoner's damage is tied into upgrades and additions between 80 and 90? Multi-target damage seems fairly okay, but single target seems to be lacking a bit. Particularly compared to say, Red Mage. Am I just imagining things, or does Summoner's single target feel kind of lacking? I'm only level 81 right now since I'm still slogging through post-ShB MSQ content. Is Ruin Mastery IV, Elemental Mastery, and Enkindle going to make that much of a difference in damage over a Red Mage who's also at the 80 range?

[SieyaM]

Anyone have any idea how much of new Summoner's damage is tied into upgrades and additions between 80 and 90? Multi-target damage seems fairly okay, but single target seems to be lacking a bit. Particularly compared to say, Red Mage. Am I just imagining things, or does Summoner's single target feel kind of lacking? I'm only level 81 right now since I'm still slogging through post-ShB MSQ content. Is Ruin Mastery IV, Elemental Mastery, and Enkindle going to make that much of a difference in damage over a Red Mage who's also at the 80 range?

I have only run dungeons with SMN so I can't say I notice much about single target but it certainly seems to me that AOE is incredible. Packs of mobs are melting down faster than I remember before Endwalker.

[Memoranda]

I have only run dungeons with SMN so I can't say I notice much about single target but it certainly seems to me that AOE is incredible. Packs of mobs are melting down faster than I remember before Endwalker.

Aye, because new Summoner simply has a lot of AoE spells now. All of our Summons now have AoE, we have enhanced Tri-disaster AoE... it is pretty nuts. I'm more or less afraid of new SMN only being an AoE-bot now. It feels like its single target is meh, and if its actually lagging behind why bring SMN when RDM and BLM exist? Undoubtedly we're just going to have to wait for the dust to settle to see what's what, but wanted to know if anyone else had any opinions on the matter.