The Problems With Ninja In Endwalker

[Gemina]

I am also kinda baffled by people complaining about the animation lock.
You don't have to instantly use Assassination that's just a player issue if you die or take damage because of that.
Was it really such a problem that they had to remove/ merge it?

It's because players have been punished for using it, and they're using it as intended. Knowing a fight from ilm to ilm should not be required to safely execute oGCD skills. What is really questionable is how the devs handled it as Assassination is still an acquired skill that works just like it does now. It isn't until later that it upgrades to DWD, and you are relieved from floor tanking abilities. You would like to think the dev team is beyond these kind of oversights at this point in the game's development.

I also think that the Raiton combo should be a OGCD.
Or if not that then at least Phantom Kamaitachi should be a OGCD I was pretty disappointed to find out that it wasn't because that was my immediate thought when I saw it in the trailer.

NIN in Endwalker basically looks to me like a slower more magic-based Job.

I think by trying to expand on its current abilities, they took the potential of this job even further, but have taken a step or two in the wrong direction doing so. These set backs going into EW are temporary, and they'll figure it out I assure you. I can see how NIN feels like it is gravitating more towards a magic-based job as their ninjutsu gets expanded on, but they still possess a strong set of melee skills through their auto attacks, filler combo, positional requirements, and oGCDs, which keeps them firmly grounded as powerful melee fighters.

[Kolsykol]

I don't really think that you need to know the fight 100%, you just gotta use some common sense.
You can kinda feel a mechanic coming, if there hasn't been one for a while or if there just recently was one.
I can't really think of anything that would happen so quickly that Assassinate would mess you up.

Not saying that things '' should '' be animation locked, altho I actually think that it has a nice feedback to it and it makes sense since you're kinda latching yourself unto the boss/ mob.
It just feels good to use imo.
I just can't think of ever feeling like it was an issue, new fights included.
And I mean you use it in your Trick Attack window right away so if you have to abandon the boss to move away you've kinda already messed up.

But yeah NIN is one of the Jobs the devs tend to give the most attention *cries in MNK*.
So solving stuff later isn't out of the question.

[Gemina]

I can't really think of anything that would happen so quickly that Assassinate would mess you up.

Have you ever missed a positional because the boss turns suddenly? It's like that, except you die resulting in a far greater loss to your DPS. If I am to paint a clearer picture, what happens is you use Assassinate thinking everything is just fine, and as soon as you do, lethal AoEs pop right under your feet as if they were waiting for you to use the skill.

Expecting common sense from players, and "sensing" when a mechanic is coming are not what I would call reliable prevention methods to floor tanking. You have to put up the guard rails so players don't kill themselves, and the devs by no means intend for players to die while using skills like assassinate. However, why it is still in the game at all is anyone's guess.

[Kolsykol]

Have you ever missed a positional because the boss turns suddenly? It's like that, except you die resulting in a far greater loss to your DPS. If I am to paint a clearer picture, what happens is you use Assassinate thinking everything is just fine, and as soon as you do, lethal AoEs pop right under your feet as if they were waiting for you to use the skill.

Expecting common sense from players, and "sensing" when a mechanic is coming are not what I would call reliable prevention methods to floor tanking. You have to put up the guard rails so players don't kill themselves, and the devs by no means intend for players to die while using skills like assassinate. However, why it is still in the game at all is anyone's guess.

There are other skills in the game that have animation locks too ( DRG ), it's not like it's only Assassinate and others have it far worse in that regard.
I can't think of any casual content in particular where mechanics aren't fairly predictable, and in more difficult content there are worse things that can happen and learning when the mechanics are coming and what you can and can't do is part of it.
I've gotten killed before because I got overzealous with trying to fit an extra GCD in before SSS on MNK it's just part of the learning process.

Do you have any examples of mechanics that happen so fast that you can't avoid them because of Assassinate?
I really can't think of any, you'd basically have to use Assassinate after the AoE indicator appears.
You should just hold it then and use it when you get back again.

I just don't necessarily agree that the devs should be putting up guard rails for players, and I do think that the consequences here are self-imposed.
But that's my opinion.

I don't disagree that the consequences are worse, but I also think that the screw up is far worse too because I don't agree that it isn't predictable.
If you use Assassinate and then as you use it the AoE indicator pops up you should have enough time to move out, even in really tight situations you can teleport too.
I think dying because of it is probably more in line with being overzealous and trying to fit it in before moving out just like how I might die from trying to fit an extra GCD before SSS.

It's not that I'd be against the animation lock being removed I just don't think that it should be for the reason of putting up guard rails for the players so to speak, it should be for the sake of responsiveness imo.
But yeah agree to disagree, even if I'd still be fine with the end result.

[Warlyx]

ninja has innate mov speed and can teleport , plus once u learn the boss u know when to use skills that are dangerous is not like bosses doesnt repeat the same script over and over , yeah there are some randomness here and there but come on its FFXIV

[Gemina]

Snip.

You're points are valid, and I am pretty sure you understand where I am coming from. The animation lock is more of an annoying inconvenience than the bane of everything NIN, but the issue I have with it is two fold with one of those being it is an oGCD tacked onto another oGCD, and the lock not being worth the real estate it takes up.

As for the guard rails, that just refers to anything where being punished for a misstep is not the intention of the devs. Assassinate isn't a core part of NINs kit like DRGs jumps, and someone who plays DRG will have an advantage in regards to Assassinate if they play NIN, but NINs shouldn't be eating floor for a tacked on skill. Just no way.

Examples are plentiful. At any given time I can screw up and use Assassinate during my opener/burst phase from shear muscle memory, and find myself stuck. Man, this happened in Bozja/Zadnor all kinds, but I am actually mentioning those two to exclude them as this content is designed to kill players frequently. And of course there are times where the damage is non-lethal, but was still avoidable otherwise.

But yeah, it's not that big of a deal and it's going away anyway, so kind of moot.

[SamSmoot]

I'm thinking of not assigning any keybinds to the Raijus, to avoid using them by mistake when I have to stand back.
I guess I'll just have to do as many Raitons as I can, then just wait and do nothing until the orange disappears before using them to move back in quickly.

[Ilyn]

So Raiton will grant up to 3 stacks of Fleeting Raiju but you will still loose the Raiju ready buff if you use a melee weaponskill , so you can still at least use throwing dagger from the sound of it . Hmmm having 3 stacks will make you use 6 gap closers in a row ..... damage seems like it will be awesome but alittle risky .... thoughts??!!!

[SamSmoot]

I'm more so annoyed they took off the auto DH/crit from assassinate . I know it's getting replaced but they could of just carried the auto DH/crit to DwaD . I like basically all the other changes but if they're pretty much taking away 2 of ours skills at least make one of our last rogue type skills alittle more worth while , it's not even an upgrade but more so just being replaced . Everything is basically Ninjutsu's now . I can only imagine how bare nin is gonna be for newer players leveling up after EW releases .

Also, I was hoping that losing assassinate for Dream would free up a key and bar slot for one of the new abilities, but unfortunately, it will come back if I do any content that's synced below level 56. I suppose I could just macro them to the same key if it won't take too much extra time for the assassinate to execute and fail at higher levels.

[SamSmoot]

So Raiton will grant up to 3 stacks of Fleeting Raiju but you will still loose the Raiju ready buff if you use a melee weaponskill , so you can still at least use throwing dagger from the sound of it . Hmmm having 3 stacks will make you use 6 gap closers in a row ..... damage seems like it will be awesome but alittle risky .... thoughts??!!!

If closing the gap means certain death, then do something else, or wait until the orange goes away and use them to move back in.
I still don't know why you would need to close the gap twice in a row, unless they only move in 10 yards each.