The Problems With Ninja In Endwalker

[Kolsykol]

Initial thoughts while I wait to log in again. Armour crush is now redundant and should have been deleted instead of shadow fang (which should have been restored as a combo action). Basically aeloian edge all day long now, weaving in huraijin in the last few seconds to refresh huton.

I would switch to MNK now as a main with NIN less rogue then ever, but the MNK changes have left me really confused.

That's not true, you should still be using Armor Crush to keep Huton up.
It's a damage loss to use Huraijin instead.
Huraijin is also not a ogcd so you can't weave it in.

NIN was never a Rogue not sure what you mean with that.

[Equitable_Remedy]

Out of curiosity, has anyone actually played with the raijus yet? After all of the whining in this thread, I wonder how they actually play. (Of course, I don't expect anyone to come back and say that they were wrong, but I'm still curious.)

I'm only 85, but Phantom Kamaitachi feels very awkward to me on the GCD. Maybe it will feel better once I get used to it, but it really feels like it should have been an oGCD in the former Assassinate slot. The ability itself is sweet, but feels like it could have been an oGCD as the clone goes off and does the actual move. That being said, it's still a fun button to press into a group. (It's not Goka Mekkyaku fun, but then again what is?)

[Nilary]

The way they went about everything is really weird. This is how I would do it if my job description was different:
I'd give Armor Crush a damage over time debuff just like how Paladin's 1-2-3 combos work, that would give a fresh new direction to the depth of the job and restore Shadow Fang in essence. Also I would remove its Huton refresh component, so Huraijin would have a real purpose, not talking about potencies, since it is a necesity they could balance the entire game about NIN having 1 gcd where it does x damage because of y, it is not relevant, since they went with the idea of implementing Huraijin the Huton extender has to go. Since Armor Crush becomes a thing on Lv. 54 which is Heavensward area, the ability that can refresh Huton without reapplying it would remain in Heavensward since Huraijin is Lv. 60, I think this is important because new ninjas basically hate their lifes manually refreshing Huton mid fight with a ninjutsu stack. I would also restore Assassinate as how it was, but I would make it same button separate ogcd combo just like how GNB's cartridge was simplified for Endwalker because SE is validly concerned about a job having too many buttons, console players and all that. Keeping the root effect of course, since it had a combo timer and only thing we had to do was to fill it into Trick Attack not worrying about cooldown misalignment and such we can delay it if mechanics would punish us for it and also I dont want to ask for everything.

Rough ideas, didn't really plan potencies and how our Lv. 90 balance would go, but at this moment 60-89 is a barren wasteland (only from 60 because 1-59 is a barren wasteland by design), I really don't know how 90 feels like but even if it's fine on 90, it is not acceptable that only 1 iteration of a job is enjoyable and everything is a drag. I feel like NIN has lost its fast paced, many buttons playstyle. I always played the most complex and difficult melee classes in every mmo that I touched and I feel like ninja is not that anymore.

Sorry if come down as naive, clueless and inexperienced about how new expansion tunings/job changes work, this is my first new expansion because I started in ShB. Might count as a different pespective.

[Shinun]

Out of curiosity, has anyone actually played with the raijus yet? After all of the whining in this thread, I wonder how they actually play. (Of course, I don't expect anyone to come back and say that they were wrong, but I'm still curious.)

I'm only 85, but Phantom Kamaitachi feels very awkward to me on the GCD. Maybe it will feel better once I get used to it, but it really feels like it should have been an oGCD in the former Assassinate slot. The ability itself is sweet, but feels like it could have been an oGCD as the clone goes off and does the actual move. That being said, it's still a fun button to press into a group. (It's not Goka Mekkyaku fun, but then again what is?)

I enjoy the Raiju's but you press that button so much now. Phantom felt awkward at first for me, but with Raiju's it kind of just feels like an ender during my burst since Bunshin 5 ticks go towards 4 Raiju's+Phantom.

[Equitable_Remedy]

I enjoy the Raiju's but you press that button so much now. Phantom felt awkward at first for me, but with Raiju's it kind of just feels like an ender during my burst since Bunshin 5 ticks go towards 4 Raiju's+Phantom.

Hmm, that's interesting. I do like ninjutsu + ninjutsu-adjacent things, but I'll have to see how it feels.

[Equitable_Remedy]

Phantom felt awkward at first for me

Interestingly, I switched around the keybind for Phantom Kamaitachi, and it feels better to push. I originally bound it to the key that had been for Assassinate, and I think that I subconsciously anticipated Phantom being an oGCD even though I knew that it wasn't.

Moved to a different keybind, and it feels much more reasonable. I'm still a ways from that chidori life, so we'll see.

At this point, it's hard for me to differentiate between something that I don't like and something that's simply new and foreign.

[HappyHubris]

At this point, it's hard for me to differentiate between something that I don't like and something that's simply new and foreign.

Thoughtfulness on the DPS forums? Heresy! New is bad!

[dadong]

I got ninja to level 90, and it feels really bad to play tbh. I can live with the huton/ hurajin changes but raiju combo is the biggest problem.

At this point even if they fix it by allowing you to use weapon skills after raiton it still unfun to use. I can't imagine anyone thinking spaming 1 button 4 times as a finisher to 2 raitons is riveting gameplay.

It adds alot of unnecessary bloat to an otherwise very fun rotation. The only way I can see this being fun is allowing you to hold on to the ability and make it 1 gcd instead of 2 and or have it only executable on 3 ration stacks as a big finisher.

I personally find no joy in the ninja currently and am probably gonna move onto another job for EW. It's a shame though I really loved maining ninja though shadowbringers.

[Nilary]

Hey guys first post!
I don't have an opinion about the Raijus yet, I only know that Ninja "feels" much weaker and boring to play compared to how it was in Shadowbringers. In our burst window we barely have any buttons to press even though it was said by the devs ninja will still feel busy, but it doesn't.
A GNB opener is infinitely more busy than NIN while it is just a tank which is not right and many people seem to forget that one of the best selling points of this game is that every content is kept relatively up to date and somewhat relevant with the level sync system. Yet NIN right now for example on lvl 60 feels atrociously bad to play.

Shadow fang was a launch and forget ability into our trick window but at least it was something we had to press and align with the 5% damage buff and it was also great source of damage on lower level synced content, which we lost for the sake of losing, not coming back and no replacements given. -1 button

Assassinate was annoying at times sure, still we could press it and it was free on demand damage and if we died to it, it was our fault. Got on lvl 60, now got on 40, nerfed to the ground between lvl 40-56, replaced on 56 with dwad. Second -1 button

I don't really want to talk about what's and what is not worth to press, as I saw Phantom is situationally obsolete to the 1-2-3 combo, in my opinion Huraijin is a dead button created for new players so NIN is not that punishing on downtime/death, I don't know... I was always able to press them 3 mudras to refresh Huton and eat the penalty if I messed up something... and the Raijus... idk tbh, seemed cool on paper but the theories about them seem sound, maybe the devs expected ninja players to walk a fine line between chasing lightning damage potencies and giving up Raiju combos for more ninki gauge, I really don't know.

All I know that my burst "feels" weak and boring with Shadow Fang and Assassinate being removed, I always enjoyed to press my Trick Attack->DwaD->Shadow Fang->Assassinate double weave combo and now it's gutted and gone. Maybe we need the 2 second in our trick attack window for Raiju on lvl 90 or something, but what about anything below that? My lvl 60 synced POTD Ninja is a barren wasteland, we have our occasional ninjutsu, 1 minute CD DwaD, 2 minute CD Mug (which I still don't know why we have as it is before Enhanced Mug trait on lvl 66, the whole 150 potency every 2 minutes doesn't make sense), 1 minute CD Trick and the 1-2-3 combo and Huraijin hurray, probably the only content it has any use tbh (sorry I hard cringed during the job showcase when they introduced it, I just can't stand this button...)

[Kolsykol]

I loved Shadowbringers NIN but current I am just rly meh about but I haven't leveled it yet so I dunno.

Ppl kept going on about Assassinate being bad because of the animation lock, I mean I've never had issues with it........
I rly don't get it, people must've held it and used it in the worst possible scenario.
Even if you used it and then the AoE circles appeared after you pressed the button you'd still have enough time to get away I just don't get the complaints about it at all.
And it made Dream Within a Dream less fun imo I liked weaving Assassinate a lot it felt great.

No Shadow Fang either feels meh imo?
And I am not rly fond of spamming the same button repeatedly as with the Raiton combo.
Just hammering one button for three gcds is boring to me ( especially twice in a row + Hyosho Ranryu ).

But I dunno, maybe it's more fun at 90 but my immediate reaction is that it felt more empty at 80 at least.
The Raiton combo looks great but as far as being fun to play I dunno.

Then again you've got a vocal group who wants to erase buttons and turn things into auto-combos...
To me it's not compelling gameplay to press the same button over and over again.

Edit: My mistake, after looking again it's a separate button for the Raiton combo.
But still I do think that it seems boring.

Which is sad because the Trick Attack window before was rly fast paced and fun and very diverse in the abilities you used.