The Problems With Ninja In Endwalker

[Pyitoechito]

There are traits that increase the potency of the 1-2-3 weaponskills post level 80.

The difference in potency between Forked-Fleeting and 2-3 will be in double digits.
Plus Aeolian Edge will give 15 Ninki while Forked and Fleeting give 5.

MrHappy's video shows that both Raiju give 5 Kenki each (and Phantom Kamaitachi gives 10 total under Bunshin), even though the current tooltips say otherwise.

Let's math it out. For the sake of argument let's say that Armor Crush is never used and we live in a hypothetical world where we only use Aeolian Edge of max potency (and don't lose Huton). For every Raiju combo we use during the fight, we drop 2 regular GCDs off the end. So if we use 3 Raiju combos, that's 1-2-3-1-2-3 or two of each weaponskill.

3 Raiju combos total potency: 2550; total Kenki: 30
2 regular combos total potency: 1960; total Kenki: 50; potency + 1 Bhava: 2260

Raijus win by 590 potency, but lose 20 Kenki. It would be difficult to count the Bhava against the Raijus because the Kenji difference was only 20 but if we give the regular combo one Bhava it still loses by 290 potency.

Also, Raijin combo vs. 2-3 regular combo is 100 potency. That's still in the triple digits (albeit 10 Kenki in the 2-3's favor).

Edit: We could extend it so both sides use Bhavas with no leftover Kenki:

15 Raiju combos total potency: 12,750; total Kenki: 150; Total + Bhavas: 13,650
10 regular combos total potency 9,800; total Kenki: 250; Total + Bhavas: 11,300

Total difference in potency: 2350 potency in Raiju's favor.

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The real issue is actually Phantom Kamaitachi. If Raiton is used during Bunshin with only 1-2 charges left and Phantom Kamaitachi still hasn't been used, then the Phantom has to be sacrificed for Raiju. I can definitely see this as being problematic down the road.

[Noraiga]

We need the final tooltip then, to tell if it'll be a big damage lose or not and decide about whether Raiju should be used or no : (
Less than a month to wait !

[CynthiaStar]

This all I agree with.

Huraijin is a nearly completely useless bandaid skill given to us after reducing huton by 60s. Its literal only uses are if you die or for those long cutscenes that previous you could keep huton up for.

Phantom Kamaitachi is weirdly low in potency in the media tour to the point where you're only going to use it if that bunshin lands outside of Trick Attack or you aren't on Aeolian Edge of your combo when you use Bunshin inside Trick Attack.

Raiju is a seriously limiting skill and will completely ruin the feel of Ninja, bringing it to be even more limiting than Dragoons jumps. Having Gap closing GCDs is a bad idea to begin with but having two in a row that can be lost entirely if we don't use them immediately and lose damage as a result is actually awful. Ninja is going to be horribly limited in movement especially during the opener where we have to fit in 6 gap closers and TenChiJin.

It is just not a good thing, 6.0 is looking to be another 5.0 for Ninja. Though instead of being painful to play and low dps no matter how you play it will just be painful to play and low dps because we won't be able to use our high damage gap closers all the time and that will cause ninja to underperfom on fights that require a lot of max melee movement.

[TheWhiteRabbit]

OK I have a question as I am a potential aspiring NIN main (havent decided!).

Is the answer to these 2 issues:

Phantom: Give it the Bunshin potency Bonus.

Raiju's: Remove the ability dropping if pressing a key OTHER than the Raiju's, so that they may be used later in the rotation should they need to be saved instead.

Would this fix everything? (I'm being completely serious, just in case this comes off as me not being as such.)

[Gemina]

OK I have a question as I am a potential aspiring NIN main (havent decided!).

Is the answer to these 2 issues:

Phantom: Give it the Bunshin potency Bonus.

Raiju's: Remove the ability dropping if pressing a key OTHER than the Raiju's, so that they may be used later in the rotation should they need to be saved instead.

Would this fix everything? (I'm being completely serious, just in case this comes off as me not being as such.)

No reason whatsoever to force Raiju abilities into a combo. That basically defeats the entire purpose of being granted a buff that has a duration tied to it; it constricts the NIN playstyle, and is potentially lethal to the NIN. I am hoping this gets addressed before released as oversights like this should be well past this dev team, as granting multiple ninjitsus via mudras is a VERY interesting direction to take NIN.

[Taranok]

No reason whatsoever to force Raiju abilities into a combo. That basically defeats the entire purpose of being granted a buff that has a duration tied to it; it constricts the NIN playstyle, and is potentially lethal to the NIN. I am hoping this gets addressed before released as oversights like this should be well past this dev team, as granting multiple ninjitsus via mudras is a VERY interesting direction to take NIN.

You would THINK this, but the devs LITERALLY added Shoha and HW Chakra to the newest class to the game. Barely 2 years ago, a ravenous horde of angry samurai said that needing meditation to use Shoha wasn't fun because you basically never used it. So they did the same thing with soul sow/harvest moon!

If you go back to HW in ~2015, you run into the problem of the devs massively overbloating the classes with way too many skills. Samurai is at close to 35 or 36 buttons now if you count every GCD, oGCD, role, and general action (LB/sprint) that you'd normally need in combat. Which is well, well above the threshold for pain caused by HW. I have no clue why, they just do.

Hell, Stormblood was often decried for how simplified classes were, but I was pretty happy when they had combined AoE + ST skills like Foul instead of having Foul + Xenoglossy. Or Hissatsu Guren versus senei. Or Shoha versus bloody shoha 2. Say what you will, but the game was better when it was just Hissatsu Guren, simply because of a lack of bar bloat for thoughtless mutually exclusive buttons that waste bar space.

It's probably less that they know better/don't know better, and more that fresh talent is being brought in that doesn't remember the mistakes made 5 years ago. Or they think the problems back then aren't problems now. It's a bizarre thing to witness again.

[Gemina]

Snip.

That why I said it should be past them xD. There could be a lot of contributors why things like this still get missed, and have to be corrected later. We all make errors that we can tell ourselves, "C'mon dude, you know better than that."

The good news is this particular issue with EW NIN will get addressed because it has to. It's a critical error, and can't be what the dev team truly intends. I'm just hoping it doesn't take until 6.1 to do so.

[Warlyx]

it would be cool if raiju chain combo is all thunder ranged attacks

or raiton > raiju (a bigger thunder or something) > gapcloser as 3r skill

[BrandoCalrissian]

Have they said anything regarding this by any chance?

Do the devs usually take advice from the NA side or are they mostly listening to JP?

If they mostly listen to JP only then i hope they are talking about this too..

The skill really needs to not be broken when using other combat actions. That's the main thing. Bonus points for being OGCD.

[FoxCh40s]

Have they said anything regarding this by any chance?

Do the devs usually take advice from the NA side or are they mostly listening to JP?

If they mostly listen to JP only then i hope they are talking about this too..

The skill really needs to not be broken when using other combat actions. That's the main thing. Bonus points for being OGCD.

Honestly? Neither.