"Everyone's so open and friendly" is a lie

[linayar]

what? I'm not expecting anyone to be on my side, where did I say that? I'm just giving you examples of what happens or happened, which all but serves to...

That said, I took a look at the rules for the main sub, and it doesn't allow you to vent about duty finder/pug experiences. So at least that's one excuse, which is unfortunate, as it just collects the people who would vent under another sub.

... paint this community as a beacon of niceness, by pushing away those voices that would disagree or didn't have a good experience, like them

Don't get me wrong, though. I think the rule is unfortunate because people still want to vent, not because I don't understand why they have it. That said, you can still discuss it in general. Instead of venting about a specific incident, you can describe an issue you have in general terms.

So I still don't see it about pushing away "dissenting" voices, but about not creating drama around specific incidents. Even r/TalesFromDF has to warn people not to encourage negative actions against people.

EDIT:

A nice recent example that I just saw:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/r2iizd/send_help/

It seems to have gotten a positive response at the time of this post.

[Michieltjuhh]

Well, we can't change history, nor should we. We can can only deal with the present. And as someone who is living in the present, calling someone a WoW player is a neutral label, while calling someone a WoW refugee is a hit on WoW, not the refugee. Of course, this is assuming that they are WoW players/refugees.

It is a negative regardless of how you try to spin it, because it's an otherwise completely pointless statement. I also play League of Legends. Am I to be referred to as a "LoL player" in FF14, despite me playing FF14 at the time and LoL not coming up as a subject of discussion?

But I'll let you explain in what scenario, ever, this could be perceived as positive. Enlighten me.

[Hyrist]

So, we've devolved as far as into someone saying that the FFXIV Game is a misrepresentation of the community... inside the very game.

The opposing argument has twisted itself so deep that the source of truth for community's environment is not the game it self.

It doesn't matter that a person rude outside the game. The source of truth for the interactions of players - when it comes to judging the feeling of the game - is inside the game. FFXIV can't control outside. The truth of the matter is a "FFXIV Player" Could be handing death threats to anyone opposing the game long after they received a permanent ban for their actions within the game. Are you seriously saying that you're considering that 'the community'? Again it's been stated that we actively try to prevent and push out those elements - to a better degree than most games at any rate.

The hard truth is that it is the game, its players, and its policies as a whole make the community. But the scope is within the game itself, where all those components apply.

It's not a lie to enforce behavior policies that make people treat one another by a set standard. There is more than enough wiggle room for constructive feedback to players within the game when people are struggling. (Yes, even at Savage difficulty.)

It's the difference between walking into a fine restaurant where everyone talks softly because there's a noise policy, and enjoying the scenery, verses the same group in an underground bar brawl. Neither are a false representation of the communities, even if the same people attend both places. But if the group at the bar is toxic there, but behaves in the fine dining restaurant, the community in the restaurant is still seen in a better light - because those people are respecting the rules of their houses. Whether this because they fear getting kicked out or they fully agree with the policies is irrelevant.

That's why, if you're a LoL player, doing what you should be doing in FFXIV, then you're a FFXIV player. But outside the game, it's your choice how to behave. If those actions and attitude reflect the behaviors of one game over another, you might get stuck with the 'worse' lablel.

The same can be said of these forums. Whichever you think is more 'truthful' is irrelevant. Outside the scope of the game where the policies are enforced, you don't get the same sort of behavior. Thus, this place, isn't a proper representation of the in-game community. That's the standard, not the other way around. And that gets worse the further out of the FFXIV circle you get.

That said, many FFXIV's players fervor for the game can get to the point of being cultish - probably because FFXIV is doing so well in and of itself and it stirs a lot of feeling of investment in the game. People feel compelled to defend something that brings them joy and emotionally invests them into it. How they behave as a result of that? Well, that ends up being a person to person situation.

This game, and its people, can and frequently has reduced individuals to tears of joy. It's changed peoples lives for the better and players outside the sphere of FFXIV have widely acknowledged the improvements FFXIV has over other communities. If you wish to point out its flaws - so be it. You have your own opinions and experiences. But the facts are that FFXIV is 'good enough' to be acknowledged for its community. There's no point being salty about it. Question, identify, focus, and improve. That's what we can do and continue to do. That's how we can turn negative events made by outliers of the community into positive ones as well.

It's your choice.

But if you do happen to decide to contribute rather than conflict. I'd suggest taking a harsh look at how you'd provide feedback to underperforming players in a manner in which you would improve them. This seems to be a sticking point. It's more than possible within the constraints to teach people how to preform well in raids, or inform them they are underperforming without violating the ToS.

Anyways. I'm at the end of my tether for this one. I do hope you take what you see of the community and its flaws and do more than just complain - but work to improve where you can. That's my policy to take on this - and it's reinforced thanks to this thread. We can take individual experiences and learn how to improve upon them, and do our best to put our best face forward. That's not a lie, that's an effort. That effort was noticed and recognized - and I hope we continue to put that effort forward.

[KizuyaKatogami]

This game, and its people, can and frequently has reduced individuals to tears of joy. It's changed peoples lives for the better and players outside the sphere of FFXIV have widely acknowledged the improvements FFXIV has over other communities. If you wish to point out its flaws - so be it. You have your own opinions and experiences. But the facts are that FFXIV is 'good enough' to be acknowledged for its community. There's no point being salty about it. Question, identify, focus, and improve. That's what we can do and continue to do. That's how we can turn negative events made by outliers of the community into positive ones as well.

You could say this about most other mmo’s because of the social aspect of it lol. Many people have met their spouses etc in mmo’s. This isn’t something unique to 14. No ones really being salty, they’re just pointing out facts. It isn’t a surprise the big mmo community won since…ofc they’d vote for themselves lmao. It’s a battle of numbers.I do find it funny how much you people make excuses for things like death threats, trying as much as possible to find ways of saying it isn’t necessarily the community at fault. “It could be someone who got banned a long time ago.” Yeah no. If someone got perma-banned, the likelihood of them sending death threats and still supporting the game that banned them is…very improbable lmao. You guys try to find so many loopholes to examples of severe toxicity that it’s incredibly sad.I guess this is just like how the players who were purposely trolling asmongold on his first day, blocking the quest givers etc weren’t 14 players. They were level 80 and had savage raid mounts but sure, totally not 14 players just WoW trollers lmao.

[Snorky]

You could say this about most other mmo’s because of the social aspect of it lol. Many people have met their spouses etc in mmo’s. This isn’t something unique to 14. No ones really being salty, they’re just pointing out facts. It isn’t a surprise the big mmo community won since…ofc they’d vote for themselves lmao. It’s a battle of numbers.I do find it funny how much you people make excuses for things like death threats, trying as much as possible to find ways of saying it isn’t necessarily the community at fault. “It could be someone who got banned a long time ago.” Yeah no. If someone got perma-banned, the likelihood of them sending death threats and still supporting the game that banned them is…very improbable lmao. You guys try to find so many loopholes to examples of severe toxicity that it’s incredibly sad.I guess this is just like how the players who were purposely trolling asmongold on his first day, blocking the quest givers etc weren’t 14 players. They were level 80 and had savage raid mounts but sure, totally not 14 players just WoW trollers lmao.

Yes everyone here is mean and nasty, plotting and jerks. (Rolls eyes)/s Does that make you feel better? Honestly, you need to read what Hyrist wrote, of course there are bad elements in every community. If you are so very out raged and incensed about the players of FFXIV ( yeah I'm going there ) find another game. Yeah I'm mean./s

[KizuyaKatogami]

Yes everyone here is mean and nasty, plotting and jerks. (Rolls eyes)/s Does that make you feel better? Honestly, you need to read what Hyrist wrote, of course there are bad elements in every community. If you are so very out raged and incensed about the players of FFXIV ( yeah I'm going there ) find another game. Yeah I'm mean./s

I can criticize aspects of the game without needing to find a new one. The whole find a new game argument when someone is critiquing an aspect of a game is, to put it lightly, in very poor taste.I never said any of those things number one, youre putting words in my mouth. My point wasnt so much about the bad elements as it was people often coming up with excuses as to why our loving community could never send death threats or dox people and it could just totally be people who were banned. Also next time, please try not to roleplay whilst engaging in a forum debate, its quite distracting and makes it hard to take you seriously.

[Nethereal]

Of the two - I feel like the "Toxic Casualism" is a better demon to have in the community. To be dead honest. If favors acceptance vs denial.

Quick correction, toxic casualism does not favor acceptance if it did they wouldn't mind you calling them out and would accept good advice or at least think about what is being said to them.
toxic elitism leans more towards acceptance than the prior as long as you give them the math they will do it.

What you're talking about is the fact toxic casuals don't call other people out because they're bad and don't want to be called out themselves, they're not accepting they just don't want to be put on the spot.
Toxic elitists do not care because they are doing what they're supposed to and if they're not they know they can do it and get better.

[znushu]

this thread alone is literally proof that OP is right.

[Bellsong]

this thread alone is literally proof that OP is right.

Oh no I guess they're gonna take away our award

[RyuDragnier]

this thread alone is literally proof that OP is right.

What this thread proves is that there's a subset of players who'd love to be cruel and whatnot if they could get away with it, that there's a subset that plays this game that likes to imagine the community is absolutely horrible and will blow things out of proportion to prove it, that there's a subset that has had very little problems after years of playing, and that there's a subset that tries to act like the horrible subsets do not exist.