Dungeons are becoming style over substance.

[Warlyx]

WoW mythic plus dungs is the same race down the halls BUT with a timer. The faster ye goes the better the chase of a 3 chest at the end! Heroic and Mythic dont give the same gear as Mplus so people dont care for them. Enjoy being judged by addons like Raider.IO that gatekeeps the higher key runs also.

Raider io is no different than ilvl , plus 4 man content is easy to form , raider io NEVER goes down even if u fail a dungeon there is no -100 points , it can only go up...so with time and patience u can get your score is Rio a perfect system? far from it

the issue in WoW M+ isnt the raider io is the "spec-ism" , is just A tank B/C healers X/Y/Z dps , if u arent those GL getting an invite ....


FFXIV 4 man needs some love , and CHALLENGING OPTIONAL CONTENT..........is gasp OPTIONAL......i dont see any ffxiv player disliking ULTIMATES...so why the hate for 4 man challenging content?

[Lauront]

Raider io is no different than ilvl , plus 4 man content is easy to form , raider io NEVER goes down even if u fail a dungeon there is no -100 points , it can only go up...so with time and patience u can get your score is Rio a perfect system? far from it

the issue in WoW M+ isnt the raider io is the "spec-ism" , is just A tank B/C healers X/Y/Z dps , if u arent those GL getting an invite ....


FFXIV 4 man needs some love , and CHALLENGING OPTIONAL CONTENT..........is gasp OPTIONAL......i dont see any ffxiv player disliking ULTIMATES...so why the hate for 4 man challenging content?

Yoshi's response here does give me some hope that something like this will come in the future. Guess we'll know post-6.0 release. I'd greatly welcome the addition of such content.

WoW's set-difficulty dungeons (Normal, Heroic) function similarly to XIV's except in that trash has (increasingly ignorable) mechanics (minus the potential one-shots from being knocked off platforms, etc.) largely just because there's no ilvl cap.

They're roflstomp speedruns once roflstomp overgeared, and none too difficult even at minimum item level. They do at least have 2-5 mechanics per trash mob, though, instead of... at most a special that one can hardly tell apart from the autos and maybe a couple marked "AoE will go here" attacks, so even the mild difficulty sometimes allows for more engagement. There's actual reason to deliberately stun/silence (rather than as just a consequence of Holy spam), displace, focus target, bait, etc.

The real difference is just that WoW dungeons have damn near infinite difficulty levels, so you can play to the degree of difficulty you want even as you gear up.

The dreaded "RaiderIO" (which hasn't been a thing, at least in the sense of some external tool "judging" players, for a while now) was literally just one's total relevant achievement score across the expansion's dungeons; people tended not to invite people to dungeons more than 2 levels above your current clear for that dungeon or your average, for much the same reason one might in XIV ask if one has done any Savage before inviting someone to the first Savage raid in a given tier.



I played almost solely non-meta specs and would inform the party leader of my spec when applying. I still got invited just fine. Prot Warrior at its worst, Arms, Enhance, Demonology, Survival, Feral, Subtlety, Arcane, Holy Priest, etc., etc. -- they all could get invites up to the reward cap (+15) with little issue.

Specs are honestly one of those things I miss from WoW. They're great for cases where you don't have enough of a change in abilities or playstyle to justify adding a whole new class, but want refinements on an existing class's abilities - although granted they can diverge significantly.

If all other groups' otherwise beneficial opportunities are prevented to maintain some seemingly mutually-exclusive service the devs believe they providing to some particular group -- especially when those prevented opportunities are especially design-efficient (as simply having more than a single difficulty setting would be) -- that's problem enough.

I've never understood the opposition to the bolded, coming from some quarters. It's something I wish they'd make more use of. Anyway, well put.

[Miles064]

Raider io is no different than ilvl , plus 4 man content is easy to form , raider io NEVER goes down even if u fail a dungeon there is no -100 points , it can only go up...so with time and patience u can get your score is Rio a perfect system? far from it

the issue in WoW M+ isnt the raider io is the "spec-ism" , is just A tank B/C healers X/Y/Z dps , if u arent those GL getting an invite ....


FFXIV 4 man needs some love , and CHALLENGING OPTIONAL CONTENT..........is gasp OPTIONAL......i dont see any ffxiv player disliking ULTIMATES...so why the hate for 4 man challenging content?

Honestly most would give any class a shot even if veng dh was the meta for tank cause tanks were rare lol. I'd say that was on blizz though. Unlike FF, WoW tanks and healers are pretty different from each other which means if content has a ton of something one is weaker at that class is going to feel it more and more. Only fools would turn down a good tank even if off meta though and outside of doing like +20s or something crazy you can def make it work.

100% support some non face roll 4 mans though. Savage dungeons of all the current max lvl expac dungeons + some ff inspired affixes would be pretty fun I feel. Maybe change how the keystones work or drop them completely though. It shouldn't even take a ton of work right? Mythic + is a modifier on dungeons that already exist so it would be number tweaking and some balance tuning. Add it in one of the after launch patches as an extra way to earn tomestones and such.