Let's talk Dark Knights

[Tranquilmelody7]

And it will stay unchanged, because it's a damn good CD.

Living Dead is fine in a group that knows what they're doing. In a PUG, it's a crapshoot whether the healers are paying attention and know what to do. Solo, it's delayed suicide, because DRK doesn't have enough self-healing to deal with it.

Living dead still only provides 9 seconds(AT BEST FFS) of actual mitigation while having a 60 second longer cooldown than Holmang, the best invulnerability skill in the gane.

All the downsides of Living Dead are for an extra 9 seconds to time the invulnerability for a death blow in high end content.
That sounds fair enough on paper, but it's not nearly practical enough to compensate for it's downsides even in highly coordinated groups.

Few deathly tankbusters in the game possess such stringent timing to facilitate the use of a buffer window.
Titania EX is the only I can think of off the top of my head that truly benefits from one.

If anything, I'd argue Living Dead encourages bad habits.
By getting used to the safety net provided by the Living Dead Window, you may neglect to actually time the invulnerability accurately - instead, shifting the bulk of the burden of timing mechanics to your healer while having them have to waste an unparalleled amount of healing resources than they would have to exhaust on any other tank.

With Endwalker, Warrior and Gunbreaker will have an significantly easier time timing their invulnerability skills properly for high end content, while DRK's pathetic excuse for a cooldown still has to worry about ending their mitigation window early.

Speaking of dungeons, pulling wall to wall will offer ample opportunities for tanks to utilize their invulnerability skills if the tank and healer cooperate to conserve their other resources during the activation of the skill.
Some tanks exercise the use of a macro to callout the activation period for invulns in advance for PUGs, which even Paladins should use so a healer doesn't waste a regen or shield on during their absolute invincible period.

Living dead is so utterly demanding of healing resources that you're better off not risking using to squeeze out an extra bit of optimization during runs, let alone as a panic button.

DRK is also the only tank that can't benefit from their invulnerability skill during solo play...I could go on...but many people have made it quite clear FOR YEARS just how aggravating Living Dead is.

It's bottom of the barrel gameplay design that cements it as not only my hated skill in FF14, but possibly any GAAS I've ever played.

The only positives I could sing Living Dead is that it looks cool.
Which is practically the thesis of DRK's entire design post HW and TBN.

[Hazama999]

[Insert generic reminiscence of 3.0's DRK here]

DRK is a job that has, to me at least, felt worse and worse with each iteration, save for the single high point that was TBN in Stormblood. I definitely enjoyed it most at release. It was my main through Heavensward and Stormblood, although it didn't feel quite as good to play in the latter. When the Shadowbringers job action trailer was released, I also lost my shit when I saw that we'd be able to summon our inner darkness to fight alongside us. This excitement faded not long after obtaining the ability when it really hit me that that was all there was to Living Shadow. Going into Endwalker, I will definitely level DRK at some point, but given what we know of it, I do not really expect my view on it to change drastically. I simply do not have it in me to get excited about being able to place Salted Earth at my feet + the Salt and Darkness follow-up. Like so, Shadowbringer also does very little for me beyond having a cool animation. Living Shadow having access to my own abilities past a certain point is also just... Yeah. Don't care.

All of this said, the DRK story has so far been my favorite one due to, as others up there mentioned, how much it goes into your own character's psyche. It really does make your character... a character. This was something that I did not expect at the time when it dropped with Heavensward. I had this idea that our WoL would always remain just sort of... distant in terms of what constitutes a character, and to a degree, they still do but SE has managed to, at the same time, give your character depth. This is an aspect of the job that I'll always cherish, and so, true to the spirit of the job, it's in a somewhat a self-reflective manner that I can just put it to rest. The DRK that I enjoyed playing is simply no more, and I do not foresee it making a return, but it was fun while it lasted. Some good memories there.

[juicybug]

Why does everyone love the ARR DRK story so much anyway? I just don't get it.

bc of Frey
but after that part of the quests ends it's just a dumb babysitter quest with an annoying Au'ra with too much dialogue

[Gemina]

Death Knight, Dark Knight, not only close by name but also so many other things.
While doing the DRK questline, I started to think to myself, "Holy crap is my warrior becoming a Death Knight?" But in my trust for Square Enix, I decided to continue my DRK training and o'boy what a storyline that was! Masterly crafted and put you on the edge of the seat, thinking, "am I really turning evil here?"
But in the end, due to my training as a warrior and a paladin and the help of a not named Dark knight, I was turned away from my path toward becoming a Death knight. So that's my story, and I hope I will be able to refine it further when I get a bit more hold on the game's lore.
Would you please let us know your story?

Probably already mentioned, but DRK's are more along the lines of the game's vigilantes than they are death knights. They operate outside of any jurisdiction, and no one is exempt from their justice; so it isn't necessarily that DRKs are evil, but rather they are more adept and have the aptitude to do what is necessary to actually bring down true evil. However, due to their "dark" methods; they are often branded as evil.

The DRK questline is amazing, and explores a more troubled, but very human side to the WoL. It would only make sense that someone like the WoL would endure the kind of things the questline brings to the forefront, making it by far one of the most relatable in game.

I won't go too much into my own story here, but the "Am I turning evil?" thoughts had more to do with the entanglement with Esteem. There are probably several ways you can interpret Esteem and their role to the WoL. The way I did was that I wasn't losing myself to evil, but rather having an overwhelming feeling of being a slave to my own resolve, and having a very strong inner desire to just walk away from it all. However, to to do that and have that freedom would require that I abandon the very principles that make me, me. My friends, my fellow Scions, my duty.

Glad you're enjoying the job. Hopefully you'll continue to do so in EW.

[Liam_Harper]

Living Dead is fine in a group that knows what they're doing. In a PUG, it's a crapshoot whether the healers are paying attention and know what to do. Solo, it's delayed suicide, because DRK doesn't have enough self-healing to deal with it.

Even if the healer knows what to do in an organized group, if you use LD to immune tank busters you're either holding the WHM's best single target oGCD hostage or you're demanding a bunch of resources and/or GCD healing. Living dead is rubbish in any group, it's simply inferior to any other tank immune.

Invincible moves are used to cheese or make fights easier, but nothing in the actual game requires you to invu anything or it fails.

It's a piece of your toolkit. There are a lot of abilities in player toolkits that aren't absolutely necessary but are great because they make life easier if we utilize them well. The simple fact is that if 3 of 4 tanks have a powerful ability to handle tankbusters and the 4th tank has an inferior weaker version, that tank is comparatively worse off than the other tanks, even if they're "fine". A class can be viable but still bad.

[Jkap_Goat]

I like FFXI dark knights

[Aron73]

Probably already mentioned, but DRK's are more along the lines of the game's vigilantes than they are death knights. They operate outside of any jurisdiction, and no one is exempt from their justice; so it isn't necessarily that DRKs are evil, but rather they are more adept and have the aptitude to do what is necessary to actually bring down true evil. However, due to their "dark" methods; they are often branded as evil.

The DRK questline is amazing, and explores a more troubled, but very human side to the WoL. It would only make sense that someone like the WoL would endure the kind of things the questline brings to the forefront, making it by far one of the most relatable in game.

I won't go too much into my own story here, but the "Am I turning evil?" thoughts had more to do with the entanglement with Esteem. There are probably several ways you can interpret Esteem and their role to the WoL. The way I did was that I wasn't losing myself to evil, but rather having an overwhelming feeling of being a slave to my own resolve, and having a very strong inner desire to just walk away from it all. However, to to do that and have that freedom would require that I abandon the very principles that make me, me. My friends, my fellow Scions, my duty.

Glad you're enjoying the job. Hopefully you'll continue to do so in EW.

This was, in my opinion, the best explanation of a DRK I have seen so far.
Thank you for sharing/clearing this up. My lack of the English language prevented me from doing so.
Now I feel we both are correct from a certain point of view. In my case, it was more of a feeling I had from the experiences of playing a Death knight in WoW.

[Gemina]

This was, in my opinion, the best explanation of a DRK I have seen so far.
Thank you for sharing/clearing this up. My lack of the English language prevented me from doing so.
Now I feel we both are correct from a certain point of view. In my case, it was more of a feeling I had from the experiences of playing a Death knight in WoW.

You would not keep small company in your views of DRK. The "evil" brand is part of their lore, but the DRK's themselves never consider themselves to be evil, and their methods are necessary for the greater good. Some say they lose their humanity to the abyss, and they would say, "If that is the cost to preserve justice, then so be it." They're very extreme, lol.

Even if the healer knows what to do in an organized group, if you use LD to immune tank busters you're either holding the WHM's best single target oGCD hostage or you're demanding a bunch of resources and/or GCD healing. Living dead is rubbish in any group, it's simply inferior to any other tank immune.

All tank invulns are inferior to Hallowed Ground. No ifs, ands, or butts about it. The devs need to finally realize that the tank invuln is a role skill. Please put it there and be done with this nonsense already.

[Bhearil]

Basically lore wise DRK are the FF version of Judge Dredd being judge, jury and executioner. They follow the idea that sin begets punishment no matter how mighty or protected you can be.

And yeah LD is not only a horrible skill, but also to add to the injury others like Superbolide are getting buffs while their kit being empowered with mitigation and self heals, meanwhile DRK gets Lolblation, I mean, what the hell are they thinking?

[Tranquilmelody7]

And it will stay unchanged, because it's a damn good CD.

You would not keep small company in your views of DRK. The "evil" brand is part of their lore, but the DRK's themselves never consider themselves to be evil, and their methods are necessary for the greater good. Some say they lose their humanity to the abyss, and they would say, "If that is the cost to preserve justice, then so be it." They're very extreme, lol.


All tank invulns are inferior to Hallowed Ground. No ifs, ands, or butts about it. The devs need to finally realize that the tank invuln is a role skill. Please put it there and be done with this nonsense already.

Yes actually, there are if, ands, & butts.
Hallowed Ground has a cooldown of 420 seconds.

I'd take Holmang or Superbollide over it in almost any scenario save solo play.
The biggest advantage it had was that it had the longest duration of all the invulnerability skills, which will no longer be the case for Endwalker.

I understand hallowed ground could still very well be considered the overall best of the invulnerability skills due to having no drawbacks, but the gap between Living Dead and the rest in terms of of usefulness would still be far larger than Paladins invulnerability compared to the rest.

The last thing this game needs is more homogenization.
I'd much rather the 14 team NOT go the scorched earth approach when only one of 4 contemporary tank CDs has a genuine problem.