ToS policy violation examples regarding vulgarity within an FC needs to be discussed

[Ranaku]

While that's definitely true for public interactions in the game, FCs are a different situation and I do think the way they've described the rules needs more scrutiny and, at very least, more clarification.

If you stick with the house analogy, FC chat is like the house owner saying "I don't want to hear anyone swearing in my house – but you can use this room for private conversation and if you swear in there, it's okay. But only as long as everyone in the room is fine with it. If one person comes in and doesn't like what they're hearing, I'm kicking you out."

If that's the rule, why allow swearing at all?

Alternately, if it's fine to swear inside the private room, why put the fault on the people who were okay with it and not the one person who didn't like it and could have just removed themself from the situation?

In reality the applications of the rules might be more nuanced, not to mention the social implications for anyone trying to report an FC member like that for a minor infraction, but the example isn't clear and does sound like it's set up to allow one person to expect the culture of a group to change to suit them rather than finding another group that suits them better.

It's rather a "You can talk in private in this room without any of the guests you don't know." but that doesn't mean you can talk trash about the house owner in that room and if you do and someone tells the owner you might get kicked out. Only cause the owner allows you to have a calm place to talk with a bit more privacy doesn't mean you can use that space, which is still his, to be racist etc. and if he finds out he might kick you out.

So the fact is, "swearing" (in that case) isn't allowed at all. Same as using certain drugs isn't allowed at all but the police can't put you into jail if they don't catch you but that doesn't mean it's alright.

That is basically the same as saying you can do stuff without a persons consent just cause the homeowner said you can use the room to talk. Bad for all the people is just that the room has a camera in it which ingame is called chatlog, lol.

[Iscah]

It's rather a "You can talk in private in this room without any of the guests you don't know." but that doesn't mean you can talk trash about the house owner in that room and if you do and someone tells the owner you might get kicked out. Only cause the owner allows you to have a calm place to talk with a bit more privacy doesn't mean you can use that space, which is still his, to be racist etc. and if he finds out he might kick you out.

I'm not using "swearing" as a euphemism for doing worse things. I'm saying that because it's – not exactly but I thought on par with – the example given by Square Enix in their rules under the drop-down points for "Offensive/Indecent Expressions".

Example 1
If all members of a Free Company think that "slightly vulgar jokes are not a problem and will not cause offense", then using expressions that fall under the category of "slightly vulgar jokes" in the Free Company in question will not be considered a violation unless it is reported.

However, the perception of "slightly vulgar jokes" varies from person to person, and there is the possibility that what you consider to be "slightly vulgar jokes" may be considered unacceptable by others. Please be careful when making these kinds of expressions.

If the owner of the house going to permit a thing at all so long as everyone in the room is okay with it, then they shouldn't be the ones in trouble when a new person enters and doesn't like their discussion.

Conversely, if the owner is not okay with that discussion happening in the private room whether they can hear it or not, then they should make it a blanket rule that you can't talk that way and in all situations you do so at your own risk.

Allow it in private discussion, or don't. Not a vague "you can while you think everyone is okay with it, until you unexpectedly get reported for it".

[Jojoya]

I go by my own rules. I bend the knee to no one. The people who defend censorship are never the good guys. Never once.

Freedom isn't free. It comes with the price of responsibility.

When you choose to join a community, part of that responsibility is compromise so the community runs smoothly.

I'm not using "swearing" as a euphemism for doing worse things. I'm saying that because it's – not exactly but I thought on par with – the example given by Square Enix in their rules under the drop-down points for "Offensive/Indecent Expressions".



If the owner of the house going to permit a thing at all so long as everyone in the room is okay with it, then they shouldn't be the ones in trouble when a new person enters and doesn't like their discussion.

Conversely, if the owner is not okay with that discussion happening in the private room whether they can hear it or not, then they should make it a blanket rule that you can't talk that way and in all situations you do so at your own risk.

Allow it in private discussion, or don't. Not a vague "you can while you think everyone is okay with it, until you unexpectedly get reported for it".

I doubt that SE is going to penalize anyone immediately for a first report. Penalties are far more likely to occur if other members go over the top with the questionable speech in order to provoke/harass the new member.

All it takes is saying "sorry, this speech is allowed within this FC. If you find it offensive, you should join a different FC". The player offended could then leave voluntarily or be removed by the FC leader.

It does show that a FC leader and those given permission to invite new members should use caution before doing so.

Regarding fears of players intentionally FC hopping in the attempt to report other players speech in a FC chat, the player doing it is just as likely to get penalized if the GMs notice their behavior pattern.

[Deceptus]

Yeah, the FC example immediately jumped out to me as something that shouldn't be. Free Companies are essentially private groups. What I said in the Main Thread:

What's even more laughable? They used an FC as an example. Like everyone in an FC has a right to be there?

No.

If you're not a fit for the culture that the FC promotes you get booted. You don't get to make everyone else conform to YOUR sensibilities.

You shouldn't be allowed to voluntarily join a private group and then make THEM conform to YOUR standards.

[Snorky]

Indeed and it is a shame that it's happening so soon after XIV was praised as one of the best MMORPGs ever after everything it went through to get that title

What are you talking about THE RULES HAVE NOT CHANGED. They are the same as they were before with the exception of the party finder changes

[Bearded]

FC chat was always reportable - they have just clarified instances where it could become "more reportable". It's not really a big issue though as in the example provided if the 1 person out of 10 did not SAY anything in FC chat that they find the tone of the chat unwarranted then I doubt that they can complain to SE. They need to make the FC aware first and if the FC does not take into account their their wishes then they have two options.....

1) Leave the FC (preferable)
2) Report the FC chat (which would not end up well for all parties).

[SturmChurro]

Who even goes into vulgar speech on in-game chat where it's forever logged. Even more so in a guild where they invite new people. Do it all third party in general really, but especially so if it has to be vulgar commentary.

[kaynide]

I go by my own rules. I bend the knee to no one. The people who defend censorship are never the good guys. Never once.

Something something USA government something something Snowden report something something censored.

More seriously though, censorship is not a black and white issue. There isn't a single organized country on Earth that doesn't engage in censorship in some way.

There are cases where censorship is perfectly acceptable. Just giving one example makes your entire statement false and ridiculous.

Mosaic or black bars over some idiot that's streaking across a soccer field; bleeping bad language on public TV/news where children might be watching; blurring gore/death.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censor..._United_States

So, either you're wrong, or USA is part of the "never the good guys. Never once" group... :/

...Titanmen, is that you...?

[GaleMex]

The page also says that if the parties involved reach an agreement or compromise, then a violation hasn't taken place.

I don't know about mega FCs with 100+ members, but I'm reasonably certain that small time, friend rum FCs all probably can quickly reach an accord among themselves rather than having to involve SE in their business. Disagreements between friends happens. Sometimes you may not know every single little sensitivity because it might have never been explored before. Most rational, reasonable humans can say "hey, can you not say that?" And leave it at that. In mega FCs that type of discretion is harder to achieve, but in those FCs you really need to be aware of yourself and what you're saying and recognize that discretion is thrown out the window. If you really want to talk to somebody about something, take it to /tells or Discord.

[Deceptus]

What are you talking about THE RULES HAVE NOT CHANGED. They are the same as they were before with the exception of the party finder changes

The rules have been changed. Updates are changes.

Good or bad will be determined in the future (I personally think most of them are good)