The questions I want EW to answer the most: WHY and HOW was the world sundered?

[Veloran]

There's also the fact that they deliberately changed Ifrit's dialogue from 1.0 to ARR.

In 1.0, he thinks that a primal has us in their thrall because he cannot temper us. He says that he smells the taint of another on us and suggests Garuda, Titan, or Leviathan. In response to our confusion he brings up the line used in ARR as well about being warned by the Paragons of the Godless blessed.

In ARR, it's his summoner who brings that up and Ifrit who flat out denies it, saying he smells nothing.

This suggests a change in the greater story from 1.0 to ARR in regards to possible tempering by Hydaelyn.

With this, we should take into consideration that the story may have changed more than once. IE that in 1.0 it was tempering, in 2.0 it wasn't, but then later on it was changed back to tempering as the story was reconfigured.

[MikkoAkure]

With this, we should take into consideration that the story may have changed more than once. IE that in 1.0 it was tempering, in 2.0 it wasn't, but then later on it was changed back to tempering as the story was reconfigured.

SE secretly changing their mind again after already making dialogue changes following Yoshi-P taking over doesn't make a compelling argument for tempering.

[Veloran]

SE secretly changing their mind again after already making dialogue changes following Yoshi-P taking over doesn't make a compelling argument for tempering.

It's not exactly a secret though. We can see the story changed significantly from ARR to ShB. Really after 3.0 was when the presentation of Hydaelyn shifted away from true goddess towards primal.

[Cilia]

It's not exactly a secret though. We can see the story changed significantly from ARR to ShB. Really after 3.0 was when the presentation of Hydaelyn shifted away from true goddess towards primal.

Making that argument essentially means any argument is meaningless, since the writers can retcon (change their minds about) any given thing in the story at any juncture. There are a lot of things in dialogue that don't necessarily fit with what we're told later down the line (like Lahabrea calling the Echo a "bothersome anomaly within the aether," when the reality explained later is that it's a form of ancestral memory he should absolutely be aware of. Which is true?).

Point is, we have to take what's been told / explained to us in-game as truth until we get "revelations" (retcons) that contradict what came before. As it stands Ifrit and his priest's account of the PC's tempering status is the only concrete information we have; everything else is interpretation. As such we have to operate on the assumption the PC is not tempered by Hydaelyn (or any other primal for that matter) until it's proved that's the case, since things are false until proven true (not the other way around). Making a conspiracy theorist string corkboard, and then claiming your ideas are obviously the truth because they can't be disproven, doesn't exactly make a compelling argument (Re: Russell's teapot).

... in my opinion, anyway.

[Theodric]

It's not exactly a secret though. We can see the story changed significantly from ARR to ShB. Really after 3.0 was when the presentation of Hydaelyn shifted away from true goddess towards primal.

Yeah. There's also suspicious comments made by Lakshmi in regards to the Warrior of Light's soul being 'Stained'. Which may or may not imply that the Warrior of Light is Tempered. Especially since 'Stained' is, I believe, the rough translation of Tempering in the Japanese localisation. Add to that recent knowledge of an actual cure for Tempering combined with the frequent display of various degrees of Tempering severity then I don't believe it to be a farfetched theory in the slightest.

Furthermore, even if the Warrior of Light is not Tempered at present then that doesn't mean that it won't be a possible threat in the future, especially if Hydaelyn tries to compel the Warrior of Light to do something that he does not want to do. Which could involve something entirely well meaning but sinister - such as a second Sundering or attempting to compel the Warrior of Light to serve as the new heart of Hydaelyn.

[MikkoAkure]

It's not exactly a secret though. We can see the story changed significantly from ARR to ShB. Really after 3.0 was when the presentation of Hydaelyn shifted away from true goddess towards primal.

Did it really though? I would use the world "evolved" but not straight up "changed". "Changed" implies that they clearly had a specific direction they had for the game that it is no longer going in and retcons are needed in order to rectify where the story will end up. I was also under the impression they had the very end figured out, but not how to get there and we've been meandering around on the way.

Yeah. There's also suspicious comments made by Lakshmi in regards to the Warrior of Light's soul being 'Stained'. Which may or may not imply that the Warrior of Light is Tempered. Especially since 'Stained' is, I believe, the rough translation of Tempering in the Japanese localisation. Add to that recent knowledge of an actual cure for Tempering combined with the frequent display of various degrees of Tempering severity then I don't believe it to be a farfetched theory in the slightest.

That is not correct. In the Japanese version of the game, they use 「テンパード」 which is the English word "tempered" in katakana.

In regards to Lakshmi, she says "your souls are stained" in the middle of battle with absolutely no context. She also says "Do your souls not weigh heavy?" and "rest your weary souls in my bosom". Not exactly eureka material on figuring out whether we're tempered or not. On the other hand, Ifrit full on references tempering, corrects his own disciple on the matter, and had his dialogue changed with the new writing direction of ARR to change his stance on the subject.

[Cleretic]

That is not correct. In the Japanese version of the game, they use 「テンパード」 which is the English word "tempered" in katakana.

In regards to Lakshmi, she says "your souls are stained" in the middle of battle with absolutely no context. She also says "Do your souls not weigh heavy?" and "rest your weary souls in my bosom". Not exactly eureka material on figuring out whether we're tempered or not. On the other hand, Ifrit full on references tempering, corrects his own disciple on the matter, and had his dialogue changed with the new writing direction of ARR to change his stance on the subject.

Yeah, it is pretty clear in context that Lakshmi isn't exactly thinking deep and talking about something external to what her whole scene is about. Lakshmi, as the absolute most temper-happy primal (the one that knocked Ifrit to second place), basically spends every second of her screen presence selling the concept that it's super cool to live under her control. Your souls aren't 'heavy and weary' because you're already tempered, they're 'heavy and weary' because you've spent all this time thinking and acting for yourself, when you could just... not.


And there's actually been a lot of stuff that just quietly changed in the shift from 1.0 to 2.0 without any direct acknowledgement, as a result of the change in development team, it's not just Ifrit; remember Silvertear Lake which has never been important in the live game, Thaumaturge previously having access to light and dark spells, Gelmorra actually being considered in any way important, Allag practically being a footnote...

In the meantime, there's actually never been any outright rewrites or 'no, that was wrong' retcons in the live game. There is the debatable angle of Lahabrea's big Praetorium speech about Zodiark and Hydaelyn being... kinda off from what we learned is true in Shadowbringers, but even that isn't actually wrong, just a little weirdly drawn. And there's also the Emmerololth situation, but that's not one we can't square (and still one they can resolve).

There has never been any inclination to completely rewrite established fact in the live game, and trying to use 'but maybe they did with this one thing' frankly just reads like grasping at straws to believe a favorite pet theory is true despite evidence.

...and incidentally, still nobody's really been able to answer an important question: what would this add? What does this do for the story beyond being a kinda cheap gotcha?