Can SQ-EN draw a line in the sand w/ 3rd Parties?

[Eien713]

The EULA specifically mentions changes gameplay, and that is what voice chat does, it drastically changes the gameplay. For example, back in DAoC You could really see the difference in battles and even PvE between those using the brand new (at the time) teamspeak and those not. It does change it. Like I said, its so common now we just take it for granted now and don't think about what it actually does on the game side.

If you're fast enough at typing, you can type in chat to alert other people to stuff (at least in normal content). Should we do something about this too? After all, it modifies gameplay too. Or are you gonna say that since it's using something built in the game, it's ok? I don't think what people here are discussing is about modifying the gameplay itself but about some people having an advantage over others and relying on something that's not a human to do part of their work for them. VC isn't harmful and anyone can use it (PS players included), unlike 3rd party programs.

[Saraide]

If you're fast enough at typing, you can type in chat to alert other people to stuff. Should we do something about this too? After all, it modifies gameplay too.

I feel like this exact logic has been talked into the ground with human shot caller vs cactbot calls right in this thread.

[Eien713]

I feel like this exact logic has been talked into the ground with human shot caller vs cactbot calls right in this thread.

The part you quoted was actually for discussing the use of Discord for communication.

[Saraide]

The part you quoted was actually for discussing the use of Discord for communication.

And you dont see the similarities between 'communication via discord vs via ingame chat' and 'shotcalling done by cactbot vs done by raid leader'?

[Eien713]

And you dont see the similarities between 'communication via discord vs via ingame chat' and 'shotcalling done by cactbot vs done by raid leader'?

I don't get your point.

The game has built in text chat thus no violation of the of the EULA. Voice coms is straight up advantage. Type as fast as you want, most are not as fast as speaking it is harder to notice than a shot caller in your ear. Correct voice coms isn't harmful, and neither are other 3rd party programs unless they are forced by players, which is what triggers a violation.

I see this conversation as going nowhere since we're both speaking from different points of view. The other programs are "harmful" because they give an advantage to some people over others (PS players) and automate a task that was meant to be done by humans. Programs that help people communicate or make the game look better aren't the same as these. Next thing you know, people would be defending the use of bots.

[Nothv13]

I don't get your point.




I see this conversation as going nowhere since we're both speaking from different points of view. The other programs are "harmful" because they give an advantage to some people over others (PS players) and automate a task that was meant to be done by humans. Programs that help people communicate or make the game look better aren't the same as these. Next thing you know, people would be defending the use of bots.

Bots are clear cut and their enforcement on it hasn't been reliant on specific actions outside of using the bots. They are only harmful when players force them. The fact that these have existed for years and have been used for years and that nothing harmful has happened to the game and it has only gotten better. BTW, should anyone using an MMO mouse of MMO keypad and software be banned (this includes Yoshi P who uses a g13)? They offer a straight up advantage unavailable to console players. How about all the exploits used in house decoration. Abuse of bugs and exploits is forbidden in the EULA.

My big question is, why isn't the line ZERO, just like the subscriber contract says it is?

Do we really want to be in a world where the dev's are designing based on the assumption that tools will be used, and thus those that don't use them get a short stick experiance?

Because they don't make the game based on these tools, which have been around for years. The line exists and has existed. the line is when you start harassing and forcing them on other players based on addons.

[Eien713]

BTW, should anyone using an MMO mouse of MMO keypad and software be banned (this includes Yoshi P who uses a g13)? They offer a straight up advantage unavailable to console players. How about all the exploits used in house decoration. Abuse of bugs and exploits is forbidden in the EULA.

As long as it's a person playing using the mouse and keypad, I personally don't care. I know that as a console player, I probably won't be able to perform as well as a good mouse-and-keyboard player, but it doesn't matter to me. I'm not playing the game to be 100% percentile. I enjoy the controller support greatly and think it's genius. And correct me if I'm wrong but can't console players connect a mouse and a keyboard to the Play Station and play like PC players? I've never tried this, so I don't know.

As for the housing exploits, they're, again, not harming anyone and it's a person taking the time and having the patience to play around with them and everyone can use them (as far as I know, unless there's another program they use that allows for stuff that the glitching doesn't).

Lemme repeat one more time: People here are discussing stuff that gives an advantage to some people over others by automating stuff for them. They're not picking up pitchforks and going for the entirety of the EULA.

You bringing up how people could just call out stuff via ingame chat instead of talking over discord is the exact same logic as some people in this thread saying how you can just have your raidleader call mechanics instead of cactbot. In both cases the third party tool (discord/cactbot) are stronger than the strictly ingame options.

Except they're not. In Cactbot's case, it's a program and not a person doing the callouts. Discord or any means of communication doesn't do stuff for you. That was the whole point discussed in the thread. We're not discussing in-game stuff vs. all 3rd-party stuff. The conversation somehow got derailed and went there, but that wasn't the initial point discussed. At least I didn't see it that way.

[Nothv13]

If you're fast enough at typing, you can type in chat to alert other people to stuff (at least in normal content). Should we do something about this too? After all, it modifies gameplay too. Or are you gonna say that since it's using something built in the game, it's ok? I don't think what people here are discussing is about modifying the gameplay itself but about some people having an advantage over others and relying on something that's not a human to do part of their work for them. VC isn't harmful and anyone can use it (PS players included), unlike 3rd party programs.

The game has built in text chat thus no violation of the of the EULA. Voice coms is straight up advantage. Type as fast as you want, most are not as fast as speaking it is harder to notice than a shot caller in your ear. Correct voice coms isn't harmful, and neither are other 3rd party programs unless they are forced by players, which is what triggers a violation.