Dark Knight Megathread

[Freezaen]

I'd like to know what people think of the realistic mechanical changes and the idealistic visual changes I suggested the devs implement.

5. What would you change about the media tour build?

I'd seek to build upon what we already have in Shadowbringers by rewarding good gameplay and by improving our existing skills, as SE have done for other tanks.

(a) Realistically:

84 - Scrap Enhanced Unmend. We need our own upgraded mitigation, i.e. Enhanced TBN. Each other tank has an initial effect and a lingering effect on their personal and targetable mitigation abilities and I don't see why we couldn't have something similar. I propose that TBN now have an initial 8s shield at 25% that grants Dark Arts when popped + a lingering 4s shield at 10% that doesn't. I also think we should be able to accumulate 2 Dark Arts for increased flexibility in deciding to use TBN versus Edge of Shadow. They seem to want to keep the risk and reward mana-based TBN gameplay, so I believe this would be a viable change.

90 - Shadowbringer is the big one for this expansion and honestly it's disappointing. I propose that they rethink the ability to make it stand out from the rest of our kit (another OGCD just won't cut it) and from those of the other tanks. Currently, good DRK gameplay consists of executing 5 Edges during our 60s burst window, so I suggest that every time we spend mana (either on TBN or on Edge), we receive a stack of "Twilight" as a buff that unlocks and enhances Shadowbringer, which would deal its maximum at 5 stacks, a bit like Apex Arrow. I think it should be on the global cooldown to give us some breathing room and let the animation be properly displayed. I also think it should deal damage similar to that of Double Down. This would reward good gameplay and make for a more satisfying ability.

(b) Ideally:

88 - LS is really just a glorified DoT effect, so I'd add some style to it by bringing back some of our old animations; Scourge, Power Slash, Delirium and Dark Passenger. It'd deal the same damage, but offer a clearer differentiation between us and Fray, as well as a nod to those old animations we so miss.

90 - The current animation for Shadowbringer is a HUGE let-down, especially if it remains off the global cooldown when the expansion goes live. It's basically just a bigger badder Flood and I find that to be an awful addition to our visual identity; a missed opportunity. I don't expect SE to change the animation, BUT IF THEY WERE TO DO SO, I think it'd be absolutely amazing for them to draw inspiration from the Shadowbringers opening cinematic. Dear developers, please give us an animation where we raise our sword up high above our heads and perform a deadly vertical slash that sunders the sky with some nice purple particle effects. <3

[Danelo]

For LD they could do almost anything to improve it.

Upon entering walking dead abyssal drain recast is shortened to a 2 second ogcd and healing received is increased by 50%.

Lower the recast time of LD to whatever bene is, 3 min I think, since gnb and war got a buff to their invulnerability (10sec) that surpasses DRKs effective 9 sec duration.

Doing something, almost anything, to fix LD would go a long way to at least show the community devs and Yoshi are listening.

[Mortex]

For LD they could do almost anything to improve it.

Upon entering walking dead abyssal drain recast is shortened to a 2 second ogcd and healing received is increased by 50%.

Lower the recast time of LD to whatever bene is, 3 min I think, since gnb and war got a buff to their invulnerability (10sec) that surpasses DRKs effective 9 sec duration.

Doing something, almost anything, to fix LD would go a long way to at least show the community devs and Yoshi are listening.

I mean abyssal has only 200 potency so a 300 potency heal even on gcd is pretty meh. I think that 200 % of the dmg you do in walking dead status is leeched and heals you. Or maybe even 300 %. Fits dark knights identity and it give you the option too remove the debuff urself.

[ItMe]

84 - Scrap Enhanced Unmend.

But why though?

I actually think it's a nice step forward for DRK. I enjoy PLD because it has something it can do to stay relevant at range: it's lengthy ranged instant cast magic combo. The other tanks just kinda spam their version of Shield Lob and wish they had it that good
But now, with the enhancement to unmend, what DRK does at range is now dynamic.

Not just in that it now ​helps facilitate reengagement, but it also raises the skill ceiling just a little more because you need to keep an eye on your Plunge stacks so you don't set yourself up to overcap on them before you're able to dash back in (​especially since dashes are often held to be used in raid buffs I usually sit on one stack). One more small thing to watch. And considering how people comment on liking things they have to watch / keep track of I'm actually pretty surprised to hear people are getting so upset over this rather benign skill upgrade. I would have figured people would consider it good design, but earlier this week someone on these forums said it was a "slap in the face" and another said it "pissed them off."

If people aren't satisfied with the skill it might just need some tweaks, but unless it leads to some really cursed gameplay let's not just axe it.

[Recon1o6]

snip

1. Its not Dark knight. Its warrior with more clunk and resources spread into three things without synergy (mp, blackblood, dark arts) It has no gameplay identity, the worst damage, no gameplay depth, no capacity to sustain itself, no invul without a whm and all its tools have been removed except for TBN. Finally its getting nothing meaningful in EW while its fellow tanks are getting new toys that look useful. I would happily ditch TBN if it meant getting some of what it lost back.

2. Old/new combo buttons readded to restore playstyle and skill ceiling, delirium changed either back to a combo finisher or the sustain piece in sb. Dark arts returned as a charge system for a bigger overhaul. Ditch enhanced unmend, add some lifesteal to more actions either via combo or buff. Revamp SHB and EW's upgrades so drk gets some more toys like the other tanks and move the levelling process around a bit so its not just Unleash for 42 levels.
Turn Dark knight into an uptime heavy tank. Scourge, OG delirium, power slash etc

HW dark was fun but it had flaws. SB dark was efficient but spammy and boring. Somewhere between the two is where Dark should be

3. I loved the original dark arts and mixed combo system being a high skill job with a magic tank and parrying-riposte pseudo reaction playstyle. I don't care much about the haste, but I do like some of the excellent abilities dark had in sb like another victim and sb delirium

4. I loved drk's gameplay as it had lots of buttons that synergised together and it was a resource based job in a load of rotations. Paladin felt like it lacked impact and warrior was lacking in depth for me. Dark knight hit the sweet spot between skill and reward and the job quest and lore and aesthetics were amazing and are still some of my favourite job lore in the game

[Fury_Wolf]

Long time lurker, wanted to post my own thoughts on DRK.

I feel like the current iteration of DRK is a good base for making a solid job, but needs a number of QOL changes and slight ability changes to make it feel nice to play. My main issues with the job as of right now are:

1. Living Dead being awkward for PUGs and solo play. Needs either an indication of healed amount or some way for the DRK to help remove the effect.

2. Blood Weapon not receiving the stack treatment as other skills have received, like Delirium.

3. On the subject of Delirium, it needs an alteration so that it does not feel like an exact carbon copy of WAR's Inner Release. More on this later.

4. Lack of different GCDs during single target play. Something to break up the monotony of pressing Souleater would be ideal. GNB feels fine with 1 combo as it can directly feed into another GCD.

5. New skills being underwhelming/ lacking synergy. The Unmend trait feels very odd, and lacks impact. Shadowbringer doesn't have any synergy with the rest of the kit, and lacks impact being immediately accessible.


DRK doesn't need a rework, or to go back to the HW version of the job. Just a couple of adjustments to make playing it feel nicer and smoother would go a long way.

With Delirium, a slight change would be to make it so that each damaging mana ability (Edge or Flood) gives you 50 Blood, with 3 stacks. This makes it a unique tank burst ability, without drastically changing the gameplay. It also means the DRK needs to think and plan a little more around burst windows.

[Danelo]

Pots can & will be tweaked even for the new ew builds.

The point was that they can do anything they want… if they choose to. The problem is that they haven’t in the past 6 years… and they still prob won’t.

I not-so-secretly hope DRK is abandoned in ew by the player base so she will have to re-evaluate their approach to it.

[Nivarea]

Contrary to many I’m not totally against Shb DRK’s design. While it is still my least liked iteration of the job, I still find it interesting in its own way, and playing it in TEA made me appreciate its strengths to their fullest, its most important one being its flexibility both offensively and defensively, and its burst potential. Even if I liked SB and, more particularly, HW DRK better, I can’t deny that ShB DRK is more coherent with how the game works. I miss the haste effect of Blood Weapon, but I don’t think we can add it back without changing much of DRK kit, which is NOT my aim here.

While I still appreciate the current design, it’s not without its flaws, that everyone knows and has listed:
-Blood Weapon being very tight
-Living Dead
-Having a very frontloaded burst, but then nothing to do but 1-2-3 in between
-No instant self-sustain compared to other tanks (Aurora, Nascent and Equilibrium, Clemency (even with its potency loss and rotational nightmare))
-Leveling experience is not good because of TBN coming late and Stalwart Soul being even latter

EW does nothing to alleviates those problems, which is a shame. The news skills are not uninteresting, but are a bit lacking nonetheless, especially compared to what other jobs got. While oblation is not bad, it’s not great either. It is weak if we consider it as a counterpart to other tanks short cooldowns upgrades. Salt and Darkness is watever, neither good or bad functionally and good potency wise. Shadowbringer is strong but uninspired and boring, reserved to the burst window only that is already quite crowded in oGCD.
The traits are not great either. Enhanced Unmend is laughable because of how useless it’ll be, and the traits to Living Shadow are not something we will feel a lot gameplay wise.
I do however think that the Delirium change is good, because of how flexible the stack system is and making it less spammy and more in line with burst timers. Unpopular opinion, I know.

So, what to do to answer the flaws I noted before? I believe we can adjust things and answer almost all of them without changing that much things.

Proposed improvements:
(in bold, the changes)

Stalwart Soul level acquisition lowered to 58.

=> Simple, giving DRK its second AOE combo sooner would help a lot for the leveling experience.

Blood Weapon:
Grants 5 stacks of Blood Weapon, each stack Increasing Blood Gauge by 10 and Restores MP upon landing weaponskills or spells.
Effect does not stack when hitting multiple targets.
Duration: 30s
Recast: 60s
MP restauration effect: 600

=>Self-explanatory, changing Blood weapon to a stack system is a perfect answer for the problem we face with it. I would gladly take a consolidation of Skill speed and spell speed under one stat to make the spells scale as well, but that’s another discussion.

Living Dead:
Grants the effect of Living Dead. When HP is reduced to 0 while under the effect of Living Dead, instead of becoming KO'd, your status will change to Walking Dead.
Living Dead Duration: 10s
While under the effect of Walking Dead, most attacks will not lower your HP below 1. If, before the Walking Dead timer runs out, HP is 50% restored, you will not get KO’d at the end of the effect. If 50% is not restored, you will be KO'd.
Additional Effect: Increases HP recovery via healing actions on self by 20%.
Walking Dead Duration: 12s

=> With those changes, I aim to keep the idea of the skill intact, but lowering its threshold. With some changes to DRK sustain that I’ll propose, I believe it’ll be possible, at least in high level gameplay, to heal LD if we prepare for it. The extended duration is to answer the buffs of Holmgang and Bolide, a buff that I would apply to PLD’s HG as well. Finally, even after reaching the healing Threshold, the DRK would not lose the invulnerability effect till the end of the buff. The Walking Dead Buff would change color when the HP requirement is needed, to signify its resolution.

Abyssal Drain:
Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 150 to target and all enemies nearby it.
Additional Effect: Restores own HP
Cure Potency: 300
Recast: 30s

=> Straightforward, lowering its CD and augmenting its HP restoration effect would give more sustain to DRK, and give one more oGCD to press during the downtime.

Delirium:
Grants 3 stacks of Delirium, each stack allowing the execution of Quietus or Bloodspiller, restoring MP and HP when landing either weaponskill.
Duration: 10s
MP restoration effect: 200
HP restoration effect: 300

=> Simple change, more sustain.

Dark Arts Mastery: (lv 72)
Allows the accumulation of two stacks of Dark Arts.

=> This change is to encourage players to use TBN more and also make DRK even more flexible.

Enhanced The Blackest Night: (trait)
Extends the duration of The Blackest Night to 8s.
Grants Vigilante’s Will to target, gradually restoring HP over time:
Cure Potency: 400
Duration: 6s

=> This would be the trait that would replace Enhanced unmend. It’s a direct answer to other short cooldowns, insuring again more sustain to DRK and not going against the idea of wanting to make the shield to break. One more second is in line with other short CDs, and would again help with breaking it.

Darkside Mastery II: (trait, lv 88)
Reduces the Mp cost of Flood of Shadow, Edge of Shadow and The Blackest Night to 2400.

=> We do like having more MP to works with, yes? Again, this would make DRK more flexible thanks to having less costly MP spenders, so more MP in a way.

Enhanced Living Shadow (lv90):
Increases the potency of attacks dealt by your simulacrum to 300.
Upgrades Flood of Shadow executed by your simulacrum to Shadowbringer, which delivers an attack to all enemies in a straight line before it with a potency of 450 for the first enemy, and 25%less for all remaining enemies.

=> The idea is simply to fuse the two Enhanced Living Shadow traits in one, to have one more space available. It’s IMO stupid to begin with that Living Shadow buffs takes two trait spaces.

Shadowbringer (weaponskill)
Deals unaspected damage to all enemies in a straight line before you with a potency of 600 for the first enemy, and 50% less for all remaining enemies
Additional Effect: Restores MP
Can only be executed while Living Shadow is active.
Recast time: 15s (adjusted to GCD speed)
This action does not share a recast timer with any other actions
Mp restoration Effect: 600

=> This is, I think, the biggest change. Putting it on the GCD as a weaponskill would give a tiny bit more GCD diversity, which DRK needs. The idea to make it only available under Living Shadow is to actually make Esteem more impactful to the rotation, and its timer having a real utility. It’s basically a Nastrond on the GCD. It makes the 2mn oGCD burst a bit less crowded, which is good. Finally, giving it a Mp gain is to make it more impactful than just being a random weaponskill.


It’s just some changes here and there, all of them are not necessary (I think of Darkside Mastery II, that is to answer my taste of working more with our MPs, as well as Dark Arts Mastery) and I know those would not change the feel of the job that much, which is not what many people here wants.
My idea is not to propose a full rework, as we will not see one before at least 7.0. My idea is really to see how we can improve EW DRK to answer most of the glaring flaws of the job. It’s a start, something to make this iteration a bit better, I leave rework ideas to others. I don’t think either that what I propose is perfect or anything, it might even be bad; it’s just ideas to, maybe, give (hopefully better) ideas to the dev team.

I have no definite answer to completely fix the downtime between bursts, the only solution would be to add new GCDs to spice things up, or lower some cooldown to have more things to hit oGCD. Abyssal Drain is just a start and mostly to help sustain, you can do the same with Carve and Spit for exemple. Encouraging more usages of TBN is another solution, one I tried here.
The only problem that I didn’t touch directly is the relative frailty of DRK before TBN. It’s the least urgent problem of the job IMO, and adding more self-sustain to the kit like I did would still help a lot.

Finally, of course, potencies can be changed for balance purpose.

There, that was my piece to hopefully give the dev team some feedback.

[Bhearil]

But why though?

I actually think it's a nice step forward for DRK. I enjoy PLD because it has something it can do to stay relevant at range: it's lengthy ranged instant cast magic combo. The other tanks just kinda spam their version of Shield Lob and wish they had it that good
But now, with the enhancement to unmend, what DRK does at range is now dynamic.

Not just in that it now ​helps facilitate reengagement, but it also raises the skill ceiling just a little more because you need to keep an eye on your Plunge stacks so you don't set yourself up to overcap on them before you're able to dash back in (​especially since dashes are often held to be used in raid buffs I usually sit on one stack). One more small thing to watch. And considering how people comment on liking things they have to watch / keep track of I'm actually pretty surprised to hear people are getting so upset over this rather benign skill upgrade. I would have figured people would consider it good design, but earlier this week someone on these forums said it was a "slap in the face" and another said it "pissed them off."

If people aren't satisfied with the skill it might just need some tweaks, but unless it leads to some really cursed gameplay let's not just axe it.

Usually you use very few Unmends after the battle started and you can keep a charge stack since tanks get 2. Its a garbage passive, to say that it is extremely situational at best while being useless at worst means that its a waste of passive, same as improved Simulacrum wasting 2 passives instead of getting alll the effects on the last one and giving something useful with the first. Your reasoning is the very same as Monks Fist of Earth "Bu-but is a 10% mitigation is useful for aoes! Dont axe it!!" when I could count with one hand how many times it was useful from 2.0 to 5.4 and still have spare fingers

All tanks have evolved more or less on this expansion, but DRK looks like they got only 5 extra levels considering how garbastic the aditions are, even Warrior is on better state and their aditions were "meh" compared to GNB and specially PLD

[Shurrikhan]

Usually you use very few Unmends after the battle started and you can keep a charge stack since tanks get 2. Its a garbage passive, to say that it is extremely situational at best while being useless at worst means that its a waste of passive, same as improved Simulacrum wasting 2 passives instead of getting alll the effects on the last one and giving something useful with the first. Your reasoning is the very same as Monks Fist of Earth "Bu-but is a 10% mitigation is useful for aoes! Dont axe it!!" when I could count with one hand how many times it was useful from 2.0 to 5.4 and still have spare fingers

All tanks have evolved more or less on this expansion, but DRK looks like they got only 5 extra levels considering how garbastic the aditions are, even Warrior is on better state and their aditions were "meh" compared to GNB and specially PLD

Then first fill that space so to the brim that there is no room for that trait, or suggest its direct replacement, rather than starting with its removal. Starting with the removal is all drama and no pragmatism.

Yes, the trait needs to be stronger in order not to be a slap to the face, but the fact that so few Unmends are cast are specifically what allows for such a trait to be strong, if we were given that improved version (e.g. a full reset that still wouldn't be worth using rotationally, except as perhaps as a window ender if you knew you'd get no fewer Bloodspillers or Souleaters into the phase regardless, and therefore acts only as a QoL capacity in that you'd always be able to return quickly to the fight).