New Summoner looks really nice, but...

[aveyond-dreams]

Alright, this thread has reached "mAlE vIErA shOulD be tAlLer!" levels of bizarre.

It was really fun to gain introspective as the thoughts of old SMN mains. Anyway, Rich was a raider in WoW and he went on to raid in FFXIV with other raiders. Water is wet I guess. The guy was congratulated by Yoship himself. Everyone who attended the media tour is in agreement that 6.0 SMN is leagues better than it's past iterations. I can't even count 10 unique people complaining about these changes on the forums, it's nearly always the same people over and over again.

By all means continue lamenting Warlock SMN, me and everyone else will be having fun with full-sized primals, tornados, our melee punch, etc. "bbbut they had poison in other games!" Yeah, and when you get better spells and actual summon magic there's no reason to waste time casting poisons. It's truly amazing that I find myself explaining this at this stage. The job is called Summoner not Venomancer?

Anyway the reign of terror this job suffered from is finally at it's end, thank you devs for finally making summoner a summoner instead of poison mage.

[rewd]

Everyone who attended the media tour is in agreement that 6.0 SMN is leagues better than it's past iterations.

OF resident is shocked people invited to a SE event don't say anything overly negative about SE's work. News at 11.

[CKNovel]

OF resident is shocked people invited to a SE event don't say anything overly negative about SE's work. News at 11.

Xenosys asked for a rework of Living Dead during Stormblood media tour.
Not only it didn't happened but guess who wasn't reinvited.

Alright, this thread has reached "mAlE vIErA shOulD be tAlLer!" levels of bizarre.
Everyone who attended the media tour is in agreement that 6.0 SMN is leagues better than it's past iterations. I can't even count 10 unique people complaining about these changes on the forums, it's nearly always the same people over and over again.

Like MCH, yes the new SMN iteration is better than the previous and no one says otherwise.
It fixs major flaws and that's good.
What's not good is that the current playerbase, people who plays SMN gets their favorite tools deleted when it needed no fix.

"bbbut they had poison in other games!"

"bbbut raiders bad sqex should focus on me "
SMN dots were not the problem and if you think so, you don't understand SMN at all.
Also the Rich details are useless here, if you want to worship him that's the wrong topic.

Stop trying to limit the game for everyone. You don't make everyone slow down because you are not confident while driving on the highroad.
There's a lane you drive on if you want to go slower and that's the Normal mode raid. You can clear the story and raids just by pressing 1 2 3 and extreme DPS check are nonexistent.

[Rika007]

Man some of y'all really have a serious victim complex when it comes to this. Throwing out insults left and right, acting like it's ONLY casual player who are 'lazy' and 'stupid' or 'privileged streamers' that enjoyed ShB MCH rework, or are excited for EW SMN rework. Hate to break it to you but it's not just the filthy casuals not on your side here. MCH got MORE popular amongst the raiding community after the rework, going from one of the lowest played jobs in the game to often being represented neck and neck with Dancer across all tiers and ultimates (on the site we don't mention). Seeing as DNC is the go to for speed clears this can't just be explained away by "that's just cause it's the best ranged". Ranged raiders just ENJOY the job. I know many of them are probably like me, players who didn't like old MCH but like it now, and that probably does suck for the old MCH player base. But acting like SE is catering to only the lowest common denominator is just an outright false claim. Good players like the job too.

As for SMN I'm a raider. Done SMN raiding for the better part of 3 years after swapping off Bard. I'm no first week pink numbers player, but I'm good enough to put up respectable numbers. And I'm freaking excited as hell for this rework. To me SMN was NEVER a good complex class. It was a FRUSTRATING complexity that just so happened to at least reward you for the massive amount of effort you put in. SB SMN to me was the high point of the job and the ShB changes absolutely massacred the job, and the follow up rework only made it playable to the point that I didn't just give up and play Black Mage. Come over to the Balance discord or other places where SMN raiders discuss stuff and get out of this echo chamber and you will find other players who are excited about the changes that are at your level, and already discussing rotation timings and the best order to use the summons in.

So drop the insults and get off your high horse and acting like only bad players are excited about this, while the high skill ones all feel screwed.

[Tulzscha]

Your perspective is heavily biased in favor of what many considered to be needlessly complicated gameplay mechanics. Of course new summoner "feels like a walking simulator" by comparison because you were playing the equivalent of a NASA space calculator supercomputer while everyone else was having fun with more normal jobs.

If you think ShB SMN is complicated you obviously haven't bothered to learn it. Seems to me your entire opinion is based on memes and the opinions of a few popular people. Sorry but that doesn't constitute "everyone".

Props on getting another class you enjoy so you can get bored of the same animations after a month or two and move on to something else. Meanwhile others are fearing losing a job they've enjoyed for years. Try and be a little less conceited.

My recommendation for you would be to at least try the 6.0 version for yourself and see how it plays before jumping to conclusions.

Right now is the best time to give feedback.

[Jirah]

Snip

Pointless comment really, I’m not gonna talk about popularity or numbers or whatever side your catering on

True: SE is catering heavily to those who wanna afk thru the game, as seen by many comments asking for trusts in raids and trials, people asking other jobs to slim down so they can play at a level of their comfort, and we’ll SMN reception as a whole. Again not a single comment on the kit, hundreds on “pretty pretty shiny shiny” and popular jobs are the simpler ones because people are too lazy to learn something, hence why new jobs start really late, and why leveling was drastically increased, and why quests were cut because people didn’t wanna read. This is the target demographic and saying it’s not and dismissing it as “elitist victim complex” is debatable. When was the last buff to anything to make content more fun? Not harder. more fun

Pointing fingers and strawmaning issues on the game isn’t helping if your gonna debate, debate. You can easily do so without the whole high horse act, which comes off as incredibly ironic

[rewd]

Snip

Then you should know that MCH is "popular" in raids because it's an absolutely braindead job that makes prog easier for you. A lot (dare I say most) raiders stop playing MCH when they learn a fight and move on to the actual fun jobs to clear, parse and whatever. A lot of MCH mains are not happy with the state of the job (have you ever checked literally any MCH topic in here?) and yes, I'm sure there are a lot of people that enjoy current MCH (there are people that enjoy spamming Cure I, so how is it surprising?), and that still doesn't mean that the job is in a good place, unless it's all just a 'memememe' and other players don't matter.

You should also follow your own advice. Go to the balance and you'll see how a lot of SMN mains are concerned about the jobs. Most of the people excited for the job are those that enjoy shiny new animations and those that didn't play the job because of some perceived complexity, provoing Tulzscha's point.

And, by the way: Square Enix IS catering to the lowest common denominator. They recently confirmed that's their philosophy with healers and that's what they did with tanks too after ShB. They started doing it with DPS too (see MCH) and SMN is next.

[Rika007]

Pointing fingers and strawmaning issues on the game isn’t helping if your gonna debate, debate. You can easily do so without the whole high horse act, which comes off as incredibly ironic

The last three pages have been nothing but pointless comments. I'm not gonna debate when I see discussion degrade like this. Basically one person getting absolutely lambasted by insults over and over again by a bunch of people who refuse to think that there are other people at their skill level who may not agree with them, and it's only the people worse then them ruining their experience. That was the point of my comment. When an actual debate starts happening and people are willing to stop throwing around childish insults and actually see some of grey area, then we can get back to actually discussing the changes and feedback again.

[Dyvid]

@Dyvid

Yes, you use them inside 40 sec, but how you use them is up to you.

Yea but how much choice do you need in a small window like that? IDK, I guess I prefer a more structured system with a rotation through the primals (Garuda > Ifrit > Shive) (Titan > Ramuh > Leviathan). Honestly I would have like to see something that was similar to 4.0 were Aethercharge would grant summons and using all three would unlock Demi Phase.

As for Carbuncle and the lose of a pet, could they have found a middle ground other than it just stand around? Why not after using, say Summon Ifrit or Titan, the Egi version comes back instead of carby? No EA, no enkindle. Just let them auto attack while on Sic like before 5.X. Once the 30s timer of Elemental Attunement is up the Egi reverts back to carby.

[SkyCake]

I was watching some video tour videos and was kind of sadly-laughing at one of the suggested openers for SMN. It was mostly just mashing one button and then weaving in the "special" button. Throw in some Aether "management" and that was pretty much the whole job. Guess it was pretty to look at, though.

Maybe changing the name and animations would be nice. But, I don't agree that removing the only aspect of the job that doesn't basically force you to push is a good thing.