New Summoner looks really nice, but...

[CKNovel]

Rich Campbell just cleared two ultimates on stream as MCH and had a lot of fun doing so. He is now going to attempt TEA as MCH. He started off as SMN and then eventually got turned off from the class just before starting ultimate prog. Gee, I wonder why. As for myself, I mostly stuck with Dancer and Red Mage while clearing extremes this expansion because the job design allows me to focus more on what's actually going on in the environment as opposed to fiddling with keys all over the place.

Rich has nothing to do with job design, his ultimate handholding has even less to do in there.
It was simply the easier job to fully focus on the mechanics.

I never said a job should be fun for raiders only. I said it should be also fun for raiders.
SB MCH was fun for no one. ShB SMN is fun for no one. GNB is fun for everyone. ShB SAM is fun for everyone. See the difference?
But I guess it's hard to read, hopefully the tooltip aren't confusing for you.

Design the job to be accessible, but also design it for people who play the game to the fullest.
GNB, PLD, DRG, SAM, MNK, BLM are prime example of that. Easy to pick, hard to master.

[Dyvid]

Basically the removed everything that made Summoner a SMN; DoTs gone, Pets gone. Yet they kept the crap that should have been removed; Aetherflow, Devotion proxy by pet.

The job is now just glorified version of Trance but worse with all the pets abilities moved onto the summoner; enkindle and one egi assault. It is a swallow job now with just Gemshine over, one Primals Favor (Egi Asault), and the occasional Fester in between, rinse and repeat. I have no idea why you would use Ruin over gemshine spells, carbuncle is nothing but a minion that should have been just delete except the devs didn't want to piss people off, aetherflow is useless and could have just added charges to fester and painflare. Physick should have been scrapped years ago. Hell the only thing they did get right was making Demi auto attack to avoid moving and missing their Enkindle command.

In other words, I am sorry that you were so heavily invested in these jobs that were despised by the majority of the community. Your perspective is heavily biased in favor of what many considered to be needlessly complicated gameplay mechanics. Of course new summoner "feels like a walking simulator" by comparison because you were playing the equivalent of a NASA space calculator supercomputer while everyone else was having fun with more normal jobs.

Wanting jobs that don't hurt my hands to play and that have visual payoff in the form of actual summon magic does not mean one is incompetent. I have to laugh when you bring up 5.0 tanks, which are the best they've ever been in comparison to the days of tank stance dancing and Paladin's Flash spell. These changes were ultimately for the better and allowed many people to have a lot more fun playing tank classes, myself included.

In the end, what's done is done and the game will be better off for it. Me and every other 6.0 summoner will look back on the job's past and laugh it off, I can only hope by then you will have mellowed out.

You make some very bold claims here. First the job is popular so it wasn't depised because if it was people wouldn't play it. Second I'll admit 5.X SMN was clunky in design but 2.X, 3.X, 4.X played fine. Third every job isn't design would you in mind and it's rather selfish to want them to be. Sometimes the job you want to play isn't the job you want to play.

Now I have to find a new main because SE did ruin my class.

I personally think summoner will be harder to play than it is now.

Why?

Because you can choose how you use your summons between your bahamut/phoenix phases.

You need adjust your summons based what you need.
- Some phases need more aoe
- Some phases need more instant casts for mechanics
- some phases need more burst

- For garuda the boss need to be stationary for the dot
- Ifrit phase have long cast times
- Titan have a lot of instant cast, it might be good for movement phase

Is that how it plays though? From my understand you are going to go through all 3 aspect within a 40 second window anyway.

[ssunny2008]

This may come as a shock to raiders but if a game is continuously built around a minority within the playerbase you will gradually reduce your playerbase to just that one minority because everyone else will inevitably move on to greener pastures. See: WoW. A job shouldn't be fun for only raiders, it should be fun for most group content provided you're playing at a decent enough skill level. Even then, its clear that even ultimate raiders were not having fun with the old job designs so far more is gained from these changes than lost.

Really stop acting like a fool.

This game is like 90% completely braindead content, 8% might be casual stuff and the last 2% (probably more like 0,2%) are for "the minority".

What´s the point to shit on players who enjoy some more depth in class design and challenges in form of hardcore-dungeons or nightmare raids? We don´t have much in this game, so what´s the problem to leave us atleast 1 caster (SMN or BLM), 1 melee (MNK), 1 tank (DRK), 1 heal (AST), 1 rdps (MCH/BRD), 2 challenging dungeons and more savage content?!
Do you and others would feel so bad about it? Would it be that big of an issue if we make 5% of all content out of 2%?!

If it would be the other way round, if this game would be that one hardcore experience with complex class design, i would be on your side and ask for more casual friendly content and classes. But how about you and others? You´re fcking selfish and talk about "fun".
Yeah, you´ve fun pressing 123 so all classes should be like that? You enjoy moving from A to B / wall to wall, so every content should be like that?!

Other ppl want to have their fun too and you selfish b´s destroy even the last 2% of the game for the minority, which is for sure atleast 25% of the whole playerbase. And without us you guys would probably NEVER clear anything which is called extreme or savage.

Must be really hard to accept that and to leave some others their portion of fun in a game which offers 19 (20) classes with 6.0, a bunch of side-activities and different challenges. Nono... it all needs to be nerfed into the ground, all have to be 123 just with animations for the fun of the great "majority" which owns already 98% of the game, never practice or main a class and just sucks even at low budget content. Stop being that selfish rats you "community / majority" claimers, really...

EDIT: And stop making assumptions with fangirling some streamer opinions. Noone gives af about them and they don´t representate everyone or everything.

[Sunako]

@Dyvid

Yes, you use them inside 40 sec, but how you use them is up to you.

[aveyond-dreams]

Basically the removed everything that made Summoner a SMN; DoTs gone, Pets gone.

DoTs have never been an integral part of summoner nor summon magic in the entire history of Final Fantasy. I am sorry that your apparent first introduction to the job was its warlock clone iteration, which is the only reason I can conceive of why you would say this.
I do not need to explain why many are happy to see persistent egis gone. I will gladly take one off summon magic that does what its supposed to than a buggy pet. Bahamut and Pheonix luckily got the fixes they needed from what I’ve seen of them in media tour footage, thank goodness.

First the job is popular so it wasn't depised because if it was people wouldn't play it. Second I'll admit 5.X SMN was clunky in design but 2.X, 3.X, 4.X played fine. Third every job isn't design would you in mind and it's rather selfish to want them to be. Sometimes the job you want to play isn't the job you want to play.

Now I have to find a new main because SE did ruin my class.

It was despised and memed on by the vast majority of people who could see the class for what it was, including a significant chunk of those who played it, sorry to burst your bubble. It’s been a running gag since ARR when it first released and those of us who were playing SMN in FFXI took a look at it and went, “That’s it??” From an outside perspective the class looked like a complete mess.

As to your other remark, I can easily just say the same to you, the job should not have been designed with only you and the minority of people who for some reason enjoyed this outlier job when a lot of people were actively avoiding it, including people who loved summoner in other FF titles. I’ve grinded for Carbuncle’s Ruby for weeks on end in FFXI for multiple characters to unlock and level the job to max multiple times. If FFXIV’s summoner isn’t palatable to me of all people that’s when you know something has gone seriously wrong.

My recommendation for you would be to at least try the 6.0 version for yourself and see how it plays before jumping to conclusions. What is plain to see is that the old direction it was going in was leading to nowhere.

...

I am not sure what this post was supposed to accomplish, it reads like a tantrum and doesn’t do much to convince me of anything. In any case I appreciate you sharing your unique perspective.

[Dyvid]

DoTs have never been an integral part of summoner nor summon magic in the entire history of Final Fantasy. I am sorry that your apparent first introduction to the job was its warlock clone iteration, which is the only reason I can conceive of why you would say this.

Don't assume anything with me child, I'll wager I've played Final Fantasy longer than you've been alive. A summoner job could always cast poison if the secondary job was select correctly, but this isn't about FF's history it about FFXIV and DoTs worked on SMN regardless if you like it or not, period.

It was despised and memed on by the vast majority of people who could see the class for what it was, including a significant chunk of those who played it, sorry to burst your bubble. It’s been a running gag since ARR when it first released and those of us who were playing SMN in FFXI took a look at it and went, “That’s it??” From an outside perspective the class looked like a complete mess.

Well hell, if it had a meme guess that means 99% of the world hated it it didn't play it huh?

As to your other remark, I can easily just say the same to you, the job should not have been designed with only you and the minority of people who for some reason enjoyed this outlier job when a lot of people were actively avoiding it, including people who loved summoner in other FF titles. I’ve grinded for Carbuncle’s Ruby for weeks on end in FFXI for multiple characters to unlock and level the job to max multiple times. If FFXIV’s summoner isn’t palatable to me of all people that’s when you know something has gone seriously wrong.

The difference is I played the job for what it was and you demanded to change the job into what you wanted. And why are you even bringing up FFXI, I grinded weeks for a carby ruby too and once I unlocked FFXI's SMN, I hated it and chose to play BLM instead.

[CKNovel]

I am not sure what this post was supposed to accomplish, it reads like a tantrum and doesn’t do much to convince me of anything. In any case I appreciate you sharing your unique perspective.

It has to be a troll account, no one can go that level of dunce.

But in the case it's not, which is fine if you are a slow reader/learner:
You are the one doing a tantrum over people asking for more complexity, claiming "pressing one button is important", sharing your unique perspective and rejecting any others.
If SQEX focus on the majority, aka the casuals, why does the Savage and Ultimate content exist at all? Scrap them and focus on casual content, why don't they do more fishing minigame?

SMN rework feels like the MCH rework, golden rule should've been "Don't fix what works" but they reworked everything including what already worked and what its main playerbase enjoyed.

[zcrash970]

Rich Campbell just cleared two ultimates on stream as MCH and had a lot of fun doing so. He is now going to attempt TEA as MCH. He started off as SMN and then eventually got turned off from the class just before starting ultimate prog. Gee, I wonder why. As for myself, I mostly stuck with Dancer and Red Mage while clearing extremes this expansion because the job design allows me to focus more on what's actually going on in the environment as opposed to fiddling with keys all over the place.

Well I wonder if it's because SMN is literally the worst class to level sync while MCH is one of the best.

While Rich did clear an ultimate, he literally had his hand held by people that have cleared it. Playing MCH was a good choice since it doesn't require you to adjust to fight

[rewd]

Rich Campbell just cleared two ultimates on stream as MCH and had a lot of fun doing so. He is now going to attempt TEA as MCH.

The fact that someone being carried in the hardest content of the game plays MCH should be eye-opening to you.

[Jirah]

Rich Campbell just cleared two ultimates on stream as MCH and had a lot of fun doing so. He is now going to attempt TEA as MCH. He started off as SMN and then eventually got turned off from the class just before starting ultimate prog. Gee, I wonder why. As for myself, I mostly stuck with Dancer and Red Mage while clearing extremes this expansion because the job design allows me to focus more on what's actually going on in the environment as opposed to fiddling with keys all over the place.

First off who the hell is rich? Second off streamers literally are the most privileged players. If they are well known enough they can spawn the best players of the server to assist them and they’ll do it just for street cred and be carried very easily, even more so if they play a dead job like MCH is which requires only 2 fingers to play. Compared to people forming statics with fresh faces.

DNC is no better in terms of afk themes. Does it devalue the clear? Course not but with all 3 jobs high reputation for being dunce jobs, they are popular picks as people see it as easy clears