Openly admitting to ignoring the players

[LanFangHua]

just wondering does anyone know how the jp side feels about the changes?

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/forums/552

There you go

[Semirhage]

Throwing a temper tantrum isn't magically going to make your criticism heard.

Nothing gets veteran healer criticism heard. It's been phrased nicely. It's been said nastily. It's been said condescendingly. It's been said constructively. There are hundreds of ideas for improvement on these very forums, with varying degrees of quality. It's been said in megathreads. It's been said in scattered one-offs. Every expansion, the answer is "lol nope, you're getting more simplified and you're gonna like it or leave".

I swapped to a DPS main this expansion as was suggested for showing my concerns, as did several other people I know. Our concerns were met with what feels like "oh thank god those vets are gone, WHM can stay a one button boring spam class just how we like it". It's an awful gameplay loop that the DPS role wouldn't dream of accepting on any of their jobs, but apparently most new healers just love mashing Glare over and over again, big thumbs up keep it comin' Square! If you don't like complexity, nobody was stopping you from mashing Stone or spamming Medica.

If status quo white knights are gonna clutch their pearls and claim meanie toxic veteran healer echo chamber when I call out horrible design for exactly what it is, all I have to say is,
"lol go play a different game if you don't like current healer design"
"You're not a real healer because you don't like to heal, you just use it for queue times!"
"Go play a DPS if you don't like healing so much"
"Well *I* like current healing design, so sorry for you, maybe you should go do something you actually enjoy then"

Pot, meet kettle.

[Feidam]

Nothing gets veteran healer criticism heard. It's been phrased nicely. It's been said nastily. It's been said condescendingly. It's been said constructively. There are hundreds of ideas for improvement on these very forums, with varying degrees of quality. It's been said in megathreads. It's been said in scattered one-offs. Every expansion, the answer is "lol nope, you're getting more simplified and you're gonna like it or leave".

I swapped to a DPS main this expansion as was suggested for showing my concerns, as did several other people I know. Our concerns were met with what feels like "oh thank god those vets are gone, WHM can stay a one button boring spam class just how we like it". It's an awful gameplay loop that the DPS role wouldn't dream of accepting on any of their jobs, but apparently most new healers just love mashing Glare over and over again, big thumbs up keep it comin' Square! If you don't like complexity, nobody was stopping you from mashing Stone or spamming Medica.

If status quo white knights are gonna clutch their pearls and claim meanie toxic veteran healer echo chamber when I call out horrible design for exactly what it is, all I have to say is,
"lol go play a different game if you don't like current healer design"
"You're not a real healer because you don't like to heal, you just use it for queue times!"
"Go play a DPS if you don't like healing so much"
"Well *I* like current healing design, so sorry for you, maybe you should go do something you actually enjoy then"

Pot, meet kettle.

Actually they did hear your concerns and criticisms. At the beginning of the letter they flat out told you no. So at this point it’ up to you to move on or accept it. Which you did per your post. Whether or not their decision is a good idea is a moot point now. They gave their answer. However, there are a lot of folks like the current healer decision.

[BooPoo]

Up the healing requirement. Squash that 70% down to 10 or 20%, you'll find that I'll stop complaining except maybe in solo content.

Lol what about Sage then. If everyone needs to heal 70% of the time but sage either:

1. Can both heal and DPS during that time, then it becomes the only choice of healers.

2. Needs to focus on spamming GCD healing abilities during 70% of the time. It invalidates half of Sage's kit but most importantly, destroys Sage's identity as a healer that heals by damaging enemies.

I don't see that as a good solution for a large group of players that want green DPS tbf.

[Rika007]

Actually they did hear your concerns and criticisms. At the beginning of the letter they flat out told you no. So at this point it’ up to you to move on or accept it. Which you did per your post. Whether or not their decision is a good idea is a moot point now. They gave their answer. However, there are a lot of folks like the current healer decision.

The thing is NO, it is not a moot point anymore. This is a live service game. There is nothing wrong with continuing to give that criticism over and over again for a game you pay a subscription for, even if the answer was no by the developers. That's how live service games with the player base work. You tell the developers what you want. You don't STOP telling the developers what you want. You don't shut up about it ever.

Speaking from the DPS side, thats how we got what we wanted on more then one occasion. Dev team turns Bard into a mobile caster and when complaints come in stand their ground on it? The Bard players didn't just stop giving that feedback, they stuck with it and got their rework. A good portion of the Summoner player base have been PLEADING for pets and DoTs to be either removed outright or de-emphasized since literally ARR, and have stuck with that feedback through 4 different reworks on the job. And after 8 years that is finally happening.

That portion of the healer base that doesn't like that decision are still paying customers of this game. The developers have proven on numerous occasions they can and will reverse course on decisions they make if a player base gets vocal enough about it, even if there are those who like the current design. And that's how its supposed to work with a live service design.

[Mortex]

The thing is NO, it is not a moot point anymore. This is a live service game. There is nothing wrong with continuing to give that criticism over and over again for a game you pay a subscription for, even if the answer was no by the developers. That's how live service games with the player base work. You tell the developers what you want. You don't STOP telling the developers what you want. You don't shut up about it ever.

Speaking from the DPS side, thats how we got what we wanted on more then one occasion. Dev team turns Bard into a mobile caster and when complaints come in stand their ground on it? The Bard players didn't just stop giving that feedback, they stuck with it and got their rework. A good portion of the Summoner player base have been PLEADING for pets and DoTs to be either removed outright or de-emphasized since literally ARR, and have stuck with that feedback through 4 different reworks on the job. And after 8 years that is finally happening.

That portion of the healer base that doesn't like that decision are still paying customers of this game. The developers have proven on numerous occasions they can and will reverse course on decisions they make if a player base gets vocal enough about it, even if there are those who like the current design. And that's how its supposed to work with a live service design.

Or in short healer player are 3 rate people in comparison to the dps player. Nin plays and feels bad for 1 raid tier and it gets a rework faster then anything I have ever seen in ff 14 . And whm is called Clipmage for years and there were no changes and even better the last decent buff the job got was mid last raid tier stormblood were we got assize cool down reduced by 15 seconds.

[Shin96]

Actually they did hear your concerns and criticisms. At the beginning of the letter they flat out told you no. So at this point it’ up to you to move on or accept it. Which you did per your post. Whether or not their decision is a good idea is a moot point now. They gave their answer. However, there are a lot of folks like the current healer decision.

There's no way anyone can ask the majority individually, but their dismissal is very contradictory. A realistic statement would have been: "We are aware of this issue and will consider further action in the future".

[WaxSw]

There's no way anyone can ask the majority individually, but their dismissal is very contradictory. A realistic statement would have been: "We are aware of this issue and will consider further action in the future".

Its quite funny and disheartening how a lot of those rules aren't followed at all when it comes to healers, even the point of not delaying fixes to later patches is missing with things like reintroduction of energy drain in 5.05 or how some job quests had to be reworked since they were near impossible to clear because the new mechanics (I remember one that asked you to use lustrate out of combat when aetherflow coudnt be used out of combat)

[ty_taurus]

Nothing gets veteran healer criticism heard. It's been phrased nicely. It's been said nastily. It's been said condescendingly. It's been said constructively. There are hundreds of ideas for improvement on these very forums, with varying degrees of quality. It's been said in megathreads. It's been said in scattered one-offs. Every expansion, the answer is "lol nope, you're getting more simplified and you're gonna like it or leave".

I swapped to a DPS main this expansion as was suggested for showing my concerns, as did several other people I know. Our concerns were met with what feels like "oh thank god those vets are gone, WHM can stay a one button boring spam class just how we like it". It's an awful gameplay loop that the DPS role wouldn't dream of accepting on any of their jobs, but apparently most new healers just love mashing Glare over and over again, big thumbs up keep it comin' Square! If you don't like complexity, nobody was stopping you from mashing Stone or spamming Medica.

If status quo white knights are gonna clutch their pearls and claim meanie toxic veteran healer echo chamber when I call out horrible design for exactly what it is, all I have to say is,
"lol go play a different game if you don't like current healer design"
"You're not a real healer because you don't like to heal, you just use it for queue times!"
"Go play a DPS if you don't like healing so much"
"Well *I* like current healing design, so sorry for you, maybe you should go do something you actually enjoy then"

Pot, meet kettle.

Listen, I get your frustration. It breaks my heart seeing how Scholar has been hollowed out and left to rot seeing as it was my main during ARR, and I loved how it played back then. All I was trying to get at is there's no reason to yell louder when it's not going to be heard anyway. And I totally agree with expressing frustration, I just don't agree with taking it beyond the design itself and blatantly trash talking Yoshi-P and the rest of the FFXIV development team because of frustration, especially because despite the healer problems, all of us still enjoy the game enough to stay subbed and continue playing.

Criticism is not what I'm saying is the monster here. Yes, it's very clear that they just don't understand how healer play. They don't understand it because they likely just aren't interested in it, and the backlash is ultimately too insignificant for them to really care and do something like hire a healer designer who understands the role inside and out. The best thing any of us can do is stop playing Healer, or stop playing the healers that are poorly designed. The only real way to get voices heard is to have player values tank, but there just aren't enough players willing to do that, whether it's due to a "I'm going to play healer anyway" mentality or just that they aren't bothered. The fact that the game only continues to get more popular also makes it hard to make not using the healers count, because fresh blood are always coming in and don't have experience with the previous healers to see the difference.

I for one want to play a lot of Sage both because I think it's a genuine improvement from what we've seen in Shadowbringers in most ways and also because I want my subscription to show that that's the direction I want the healers to go in.

[Absurdity]

The likely scenario right now is simply that they abandoned those principles because they became inconvenient, now that XIV is doing very well and doesn't have to desperately win people's trust back like it was the case in 2.0

Just look at point 3: "If citizens are complaining, it means they still care."

Sure, we still care... the devs just don't, they flat out told us in the live letter. They heard the healer's complaints and basically told them to move to Cananda.