Preferences for a new world in 6.x, 7.x and beyond

[MikkoAkure]

Except he doesn't just call them eikons, he calls them eikons and specifically notes that eikons are different from primals somehow. Indeed, he also calls Odin an eikon.

Everyone else calls Odin an "elder primal" but that still gets into "why does everyone else call Bahamut, Phoenix, and Odin 'elder primals' but this one guy calls them 'eikons' while the Garleans and an Allagan artifact call things we call 'primals' as 'eikons'?". I think you're caught up trying to reconcile terminology trying to justify an idea you have when that idea already has inconsistencies that don't support it.

[Veloran]

Lahabrea has been going around teaching people how to summon things for at least 5000 years so I'm not inclined to believe that the 6 elemental summons are any different.

He was also the one most involved in developing new summoned concepts with the Ancient's creation magic. It could be he was specifically influencing various cultures and religions to get them to draw on the concepts he had invented. For example while Shiva is named after Saint Shiva, Ysayle's actual summoning is far more similar to Halone, one of the Twelve and the chief deity of Ishgard, which Lahabrea was obviously meddling with. And yes, it may also be that many of the summonings we have are simply mislabeled.

Lahabrea attempted to teach a group of Ala Mhigans how to summon Rhalgr, a lightning aspected god. But why would he do that if he's heavily implied to be the same origin as Ramuh and by your criteria, only one can be summoned at a time?

Ramuh clearly takes inspiration from Rhalgr, but by the same token he's also clearly different and distinct. Why exactly primals operate on IP law for their "only one incarnation at a time" rule is anyone's guess, but clearly that rule does exist, it's been a major plot point in multiple storylines. Also, I don't think elemental aspecting is the real differentiation here.

Everyone else calls Odin an "elder primal" but that still gets into "why does everyone else call Bahamut, Phoenix, and Odin 'elder primals' but this one guy calls them 'eikons' while the Garleans and an Allagan artifact call things we call 'primals' as 'eikons'?". I think you're caught up trying to reconcile terminology trying to justify an idea you have when that idea already has inconsistencies that don't support it.

It's true that there's a significant amount of confused terminology here. However, my greater point has to do with the fact that something resembling the primals was freed from Hydaelyn's seal on Silvertear lake, and thereafter summonings started becoming much easier. I feel the best explanation for this phenomenon relates to the Ancient's concepts, and that with Hydaelyn weakening she's no longer able to tamp down on the summoning of primals anywhere near like she used to.

[MikkoAkure]

He was also the one most involved in developing new summoned concepts with the Ancient's creation magic. It could be he was specifically influencing various cultures and religions to get them to draw on the concepts he had invented. For example while Shiva is named after Saint Shiva, Ysayle's actual summoning is far more similar to Halone, one of the Twelve and the chief deity of Ishgard, which Lahabrea was obviously meddling with. And yes, it may also be that many of the summonings we have are simply mislabeled.


Ramuh clearly takes inspiration from Rhalgr, but by the same token he's also clearly different and distinct. Why exactly primals operate on IP law for their "only one incarnation at a time" rule is anyone's guess, but clearly that rule does exist, it's been a major plot point in multiple storylines. Also, I don't think elemental aspecting is the real differentiation here.

Apparently Koji has already said that multiple of the same primal can be summoned at once. 2 groups of similar Amalj'aa can't have the same Ifrit at the same time, but a different group of people whose idea of Ifrit varies from the Amalj'aa version can summon their own, who is pulled from the Lifestream with a different personality and memories. We see something similar with the child-like Titan summoned by an angry and traumatized kobold kid.

It's true that there's a significant amount of confused terminology here. However, my greater point has to do with the fact that something resembling the primals was freed from Hydaelyn's seal on Silvertear lake, and thereafter summonings started becoming much easier. I feel the best explanation for this phenomenon relates to the Ancient's concepts, and that with Hydaelyn weakening she's no longer able to tamp down on the summoning of primals anywhere near like she used to.

I think you're still reading too much into the 1.0 cutscene and that the plot thread was abandoned or changed for ARR. It makes more sense to me that the explosion just released more ambient aether and crystals into the world than making a whole separate classification of primal that only applies to some, and then having to make separate distinctions or an excuse to explain ones that don't fit, like Thordan, Moggle Mog, Alexander, Lakshmi, Tsukuyomi, and Susanoo.

[Neoyoshi]

Well, there is a lot of places to explore within the Final Fantasy universe, not to mention the sky being the limit, they could just create completely new stuff never before seen in a final fantasy entry.

I'd like to see different planets really; i feel like Eorzea shouldn't have to be the only place we call home.

[MoofiaBossVal]

Wherever we go, I'd like to get a lot of visually imaginative high fantasy environments. The Source has been pretty lacking in them, with it mostly boring, mundane environments. Norvrandt was more along the lines of what I wanted with the constant light in the sky, a purple forest, the frozen wave of light in Amh Araeng, the flooded kingdom populated by fairies, the ancient underwater city, etc. So if going to other shards or even alien planet's like Omega's homeworld will give us more high fantasy environments, than I'm down for it. Right now, the only other location on the Source that sounds vaguely interesting is Meracydia. Apparently Meracydia was wrecked by aether when the Allagans launched Azys Lla, so that could make for some interesting landscapes. Not too fond on there being a dragon civilization in Meracydia, though. I've had enough of dragons.

[Veloran]

Apparently Koji has already said that multiple of the same primal can be summoned at once. 2 groups of similar Amalj'aa can't have the same Ifrit at the same time, but a different group of people whose idea of Ifrit varies from the Amalj'aa version can summon their own, who is pulled from the Lifestream with a different personality and memories. We see something similar with the child-like Titan summoned by an angry and traumatized kobold kid.

In that case it would just be a different deity entirely. Titan was influenced by the circumstances of his summoning but it was still that same essence of Titan that was summoned before.

I think you're still reading too much into the 1.0 cutscene and that the plot thread was abandoned or changed for ARR. It makes more sense to me that the explosion just released more ambient aether and crystals into the world than making a whole separate classification of primal that only applies to some, and then having to make separate distinctions or an excuse to explain ones that don't fit, like Thordan, Moggle Mog, Alexander, Lakshmi, Tsukuyomi, and Susanoo.

I don't think it was abandoned at all, considering we're doing the 1.0 "great evil in the moon" plotline again, in longform this time. They're really good about reincorporating elements from the older story back into the current story in a new way, so I see no reason to just disregard it.

Besides, again, that's really just tangential to the overall idea that the primals will become a worse problem after Endwalker.

[KageTokage]

Remember that there's a stated reason the Source doesn't have any known Ancient buildings (at least, that we're aware of); it's gone through a huge amount of apocalyptic, world-rending disasters, which eventually tear down even the pretty sturdy Ancient architecture. Consider Amaurot itself, off the coast of Vylbrand; in the First it had to take the End of Days, the Sundering (if that did any damage) and then eons underwater, while in the Source it's had to deal with all that, plus seven apocalypse-level events.

That's not to say we can't go to more Ancient buildings (even if I don't personally want to), but rather that any reasoning for getting us there has to be a little smarter than 'we just find them somewhere'.

I'm mostly referring to that Endwalker zone that by all appearances is a floating sanctuary of Ancient make; presumably spared from calamities simply by virtue of being too high in the sky to be affected.

I feel like if one such place exists, there could easily be others given the nigh-limitless potential of the Ancients, plus we don't really much of an idea of if/how the other continents in the world were affected by the calamities.

[GoldStarz]

I'm mostly referring to that Endwalker zone that by all appearances is a floating sanctuary of Ancient make; presumably spared from calamities simply by virtue of being too high in the sky to be affected.

I feel like if one such place exists, there could easily be others given the nigh-limitless potential of the Ancients, plus we don't really much of an idea of if/how the other continents in the world were affected by the calamities.

I mean the first calamity was the Calamity of Wind, just being in the sky can't save it from getting bodied by tornadoes, storms, and sleet, even if it has a certain level of immunity to calamities of Earth and Water.

[Vyrerus]

I mean the first calamity was the Calamity of Wind, just being in the sky can't save it from getting bodied by tornadoes, storms, and sleet, even if it has a certain level of immunity to calamities of Earth and Water.

If it's over 60,000 feet above the planet surface, clouds can't even form that high up, so no weather would affect it.

[RyuDragnier]

I'm mostly referring to that Endwalker zone that by all appearances is a floating sanctuary of Ancient make; presumably spared from calamities simply by virtue of being too high in the sky to be affected.

I feel like if one such place exists, there could easily be others given the nigh-limitless potential of the Ancients, plus we don't really much of an idea of if/how the other continents in the world were affected by the calamities.

I don't think it's in the sky, tbh. Think about what we know about it. It looks like a dreamworld, a paradise, and somebody known as The Dreamer has been referenced in the final story stuff for 5.5. It's likely an area that's in a dream world created by The Dreamer, similar in concept to Lyhe Mheg (Pixie tribe special area).